SS Sword

[pandy]

Hi folks. It's been a while since I posted here but I have caught the bug again after spotting this sword. Fingers crossed the pics come up.

I would like to know the sword collectors/experts thoughts on this one. There is no makers mark or SS number anywhere on the sword that I can see. Real or a very good copy?

Many thanks

[pvluger]

Personally, I think this one is good. Though I cant speak for the originality of the knot, washer, and upper scabbard fitting screw. I am definitely thinking this piece is ok. Hopefully JR can shed some much valued opinion.

PS: Scabbard might be a repaint.

my .02

[SwordFish]

Couple of questions.

Is the grip wood or some type of celluloid? I can't really tell from the photos.

Can you tell from inspection how the grip button is attached?

Scabbard may be a repaint. The condition of the paint looks almost too good.

Last question. Can you explain how the pommel assembly is put together?

I can't tell. You need to be super careful with these. I've handled some of the repros, which generally can be identified as repros with hand inspections. Photos can be deceiving at times. I can't stress enough how careful one needs to be when dealing with SS degens.

Just from the photos, I would guess this one is good. But I wouldn't say with 100% certainty till minimally the above questions were answered.

[JR.]

I had a whole post written up on this piece and some how lost it. I'll try to do it again tomorrow. JR

[SwordFish]

Looking at the photos i've gone back and forth on it. I'd like to get the questions answered before I go any further or speculate .

Photos of the degen taken down would also be a big help..which I don't advocate unless a collector knows what he/she (politcally correct) is doing.

[Seiler]

Does not make me feel comfortable from what can be seen so far.
Dont like the tang without the other "bits" to be seen..
Knot.. Reworked Police??
More pics as requested AND JR,s earlier view!!!
Seiler

[pvluger]

There's a VERY good chance that this is not police rework because its solid nickel.

[pvluger]

IMO, this is maybe a doctored-up original or completely fake.

[sdesember]

Some parts of this Degen have been switched around. Lower ferrule looks the stamped type ala Dachau vintage and the whole grip construction is rather poor one. The white leather buffer pad looks questionable. The officer's portepee is also questionable as the runes are too close for comfort as they seem to touch each other on the close-up photo. The SS button grip looks like a repro. Blade also looks repro. When I saw the reverse shot of the whole hilt construction, I thought it could be a mid-vintage production Degen. But, after seeing the ferrule w/ all the other parts that I mentioned to be wrong, this Degen is a parts Degen at best.

[pvluger]

Looking at the photos i've gone back and forth on it. I'd like to get the questions answered before I go any further or speculate .

Photos of the degen taken down would also be a big help..which I don't advocate unless a collector knows what he/she (politcally correct) is doing.

Parts piece is defintely possible. I see how its hard to swallow that sword with sword hanger, minty portepee, mint washer, mint upper fitting screw; yet well worn upper fitting has not been "helped along" with some trimings added.

Swordfishs' questions answered will assist us greatly to determine what is exactly repro if anything. It would defintly suck if the blade is fake. That would kill it regardless if any hilt assembly was genuine.

[JR.]

My take on the degen and many points have already been touched on by the members of this forum. I'll discuss each photo as it was shown on this topic. The portapee as previously mentioned, while the runes don't touch like many that we see postwar, the bullion is much thicker than what is seen on period knots, shows no sign of wear and appears loosely woven like most post war pieces. You may want to black light this too as another indicator.

The degen appear to want to be portrayed as a mid period sword. While the early all nickel ones were introduced in 1936, the composition of these swords evolved into mid period construction rather quickly much like the M36 Chain SS dagger Within no longer than 12 months of introduction, the materials used in these degens turned to a combination of plated and nickel parts. Your second photo shows what I would guess to be a nickel ferrule which could be associated with a 1937 and later constructed mid-period SS Officer's sword. It shows some burnishment in the oak leaves as I would expect. The thick white blade washer is most definitely post war.

The scabbard upper fitting shows no burnishing at all to the basket weave and although the period color was not a true black and more of a gray, I would expect to see at least some evidence of it being done at one time. You do find many police swords that this process was not done with, but all of the early and mid period SS Officers Swords usually show this area burnished. The scabbard is most definitely re-painted.

In the next photo, the tang shows some heat marks to it. Something that I wouldn't expect to see some 60 years later after WWII. The 13 section grip appears to be the proper contour, but like the portapee it is stone mint with a new appearance. This is hard to imagine as the period grips are usually lacquer coated and over time this will always chip off in places. The hilt on this sword appears steel and something that could be seen on a mid period sword even with a nickel ferrule. The runes button appears very large and flat, unlike any that I am familiar with. On all of the SS degens that I have owned, the top edge of the runes is always directly under the wire for the 5th rung of the grip sections. The one shown extends into that 5th rung and not below it. And lastly the blade has a very short ricasso with edge and blood groove running almost up to the washer. On the blade that I'm familiar with, this blank ricasso area is at least 2" long before it runs to the area of the hilt. Hope this helps. JR

[Seiler]

Thanks JR.
Owner,
Show us the cap inside and out plus what is inside/under the cap or pommel
please.
Thanks
Seiler

[pandy]

First of all thanks for your input guys it is very much appreciated. Here are other pics as requested. I will comment on my thoughts (although I'm no expert) after you have looked at these.

This was all I could disassemble. Does the grip, ferrule come apart? I Didn't like to try.

Many thanks!

[colt45s]

the Oal leaves & Acorn are not as crisp with detail as mine

[pvluger]

Yeah, my runes are right up against the wire too. I wonder if the whole wood grip piece is bogus?