SS 1211 dagger

[valsente]

Hello guys, I've in my hands this dagger from a few days and I'm studying it. At a first glance it seems to be a real E.Pack & Sohn rare dagger. What do you thin about?
Thanks a lot. Val

[dblmed]

Ooops!!!!!!!

The RZM Markings are a bit indistinct & and are OFF CENTER .... but the Grip, Guards & Scabbard looks OK...

OOOPS!!!!!!! ....... Everything was looking really Great .....

UNTIL..... I saw the HOLE in the Tang

WHY the Hole?? Supposed it was used on Daggers in which the Blade was to be Plated, and it was used as a 'Grip Hole' for the supporting wire during hanging & dipping during the ElectroPlating.
BUT..... an SS Blade is NOT a customarily Plated Blade....

I have been informed by those more knowledgeable than me, that this HOLE is "Often" found on Repro Blades. (HOPE that I am wrong.)

Let's hear from the 'more knowledgeable' Guys! .........Txs, Dave/dblmed

[Skyline Drive]

I would pass on any SS dagger with a hole in the tang.

[valsente]

Hi Dave,
thanks for your response. I have had the same doubt about the hole but I don't know if it was used in any SS dagger. Waiting for a light.
Val

[james m]

I'm confirming what has been stated above. All 1211 marked daggers IMO are suspect but the ones with a hole thru the tang are for sure fakes. However; from the ones I've examined some of the parts may be legit so if it's cheap enough it may be worth acquiring for the parts.
Jim

[GaryMJ]

1211/39 is a legitimate maker (EP&S), however they are widely faked. This dagger has some of the fake characteristics, the motto is too far down the blade, the crossguards on many of the copies are made from some kind of brass alloy, but usually nickel plated. The blade is mishapen, too pointed, and the hole in the tang is the kiss of death. I doubt that any part of this dagger is TR period...

Red

[pvluger]

I agree with Gary,

I believe this dagger to be a parts dagger mixed with post-war parts. The patina looks VERY odd as well.

[james m]

I owned one of these at one time which I sold to a dealer for parts. And IMO: the grip and the scabbard were period.
Jim

[Anthony N]

I must admit that this is the first time i've seen one of these & it does look bad at first look.
However, i also think that the grip & scabbard look like they have a chance of being OK.
Ant.

[valsente]

Hello guys, thanks a lot for your precious help. I have returned the dagger to the guy who gave it to me for sale in consignment. You can image his disappointment!
He bought this dagger in Germany a lot of years ago and he was pretty sure about its originality. At this point I presume that 80% of the stuff in the hands of Italian SS collectors is like this one: fake!
Val

[dblmed]

Don't Give Up (!)

Valsente ...... Don't Give Up (!) You'll find a great one....
There is a Lot of great TR Items, including SS Daggers, out there!

Isn't wonderful that today there are specific Forums to Show - Discuss & Learn all about them?

In the "Pre-NET" days, we went to Gun Shows and had to 'Trust' the Dealer / Seller and the BOOKS were only in B & W (Black & White!) We've come a long way - but the escalating prices of original TR Items has spawned a whole Industry of "Fakes" - as the potential for profit is just too high for Crooks to resist.

Keep at it! ..... Txs, Dave/dblmed