dj daggers

[stuart a.]

this is turning into a really interesting discussion and ron if you ever get around to doing the book put me on the list for a copy.
the one thing that still worries me is the total lack of period photos, you would beleive at least a few would have been seen yet no-one (as of yet) can produce any, even rare daggers like the hj leaders dagger and other rare awards like the partisan badge have lots of period photos to confirm their existance ,yet something as basic as a dj/bdm (whatever you want to call it) dagger has none.
also remember the parents of a lot of these kids where very proud of them and took lots of photos of them in uniform the amount of hj photos around is huge yet none show these daggers
stu

[RussellM]

I agree with Ron's opinion that these were made during the period but were never issued to any approved or sanctioned Third Reich organisation.
I don't believe they were made as standard with diamond attached, but just as a plain un-adorned knife. I would think it quite possible that at the end of the war, during the allied occupation, these plain knives were sold as souvenirs to the troops, with the addition of diamonds as adornment - who wants a souvenir without a swastika?
There is evidence that post-war HJ knives were sold as souvenirs, using genuine components. What better way to get rid of a bunch of non-approved, Third Reich manufactured pieces? I also think that many of the plain un-adorned knives have had diamonds placed on them in more recent times.

Until some period evidence such as catalogues, regulations, price lists etc are found verifying this knife as a BDM/DJ knife, then it should be known as an 'un-attributed knife with HJ insignia', or similar. JMO.

The pic shows a DJ member wearing his regulation 'Fahrtenmesser für die Hitler-Jugend und das Deutsche Jungvolk', taken from Angolia's book "The HJ" Volume 1.

Regards
Russell

[Josh B.]

A link to Bill Shea's RZM marked DJ. Both the scabbard shell and unique riveted HJ diamond are RZM'd, although Bill does not show a pic of the diamond's markings. I'm sure he'd humor us if we asked for one...

http://www.therupturedduck.com/WebPages/Edged/e481a.htm

Best,
Josh


So, again, anyone want to destroy their DJ scabbard to help settle this one?

And I agree, how 'official' these knives are/were remains to be solved. So, why don't we see them in pics? I'd venture the obvious guess that for the most part the standard HJ knife was used by the DJ- as evidenced from all the pictures. Does it mean that the DJ pattern we are all wondering about was never used by SOME members of that organization? I guess that's what we're all shooting for...
Maybe they were just 'last ditch' HJ patterns as Ron implies.

[RussellM]

Just for fun...
Try putting yourself in the shoes of a DJ member. You've just undertaken all your Pimphenprobe tests and earned the right to wear the HJ/DJ Fahrtenmesser and cross-strap. All your friends have got one, thousands of them, millions of them all wear it. It's what you've been striving for. All that study, and your moment of recognition approaches. The DJ uniform regulations say this is what you have to wear. But, no, you decide to be different. You want to wear something that is non-regulation. You've got the OK from your District Leader to wear something that is non-regulation. He's ok with that because he will enjoy his superiors coming down on him about it. Where will you find something 'different'? You search furiously through all the catalogues. You visit all the retail outlets. You can't find anything apart from the regulation HJ knife. Boring. You think about buying an SA dagger but that's too big. So you pack up your bags and make tracks for Solingen, and cruise the manufacturers, seeking something different, and they hand you this knife. "Wow, stick an HJ diamond on the scabbard and I'll take it! I'll call it a DJ knife". "And, my sister is in the BDM, so I'll have one for her too please. She could really find that useful, with her studies in cooking, domestic science, needlework, nursing, cultural history, family function and faith and beauty. Mum and Dad will love it - they think all young girls should wear a knife with their skirt. I'll call it the BDM/DJ knife".

Regards
Russell

[Santi]

!!
Ive already told you but i'll tell it again, i admire your imagination, Russell