A KM Naval dagger in steel?

[GaryMJ]

Greetings to you all from South Africa. I am slowly trying to assemble a small representative example of some Third Reich daggers, and have recently purchased a Navy dagger which I cannot find any reference about.

It is a Horster in beautiful condition, except for the pommel eagle which is brass, where the crossguard appears to be potmetal. The scabbard is steel, varnished with some guilding in the lightening pattern recesses. All the Naval daggers pics I have found online are brass construction. Being quite worried about being conned into a reproduction, although the seller seemed very credible, I sent a few pics to Johnsons, who indicated is was authentic, but late war. Does anyone know if this pommel seems right? The design is different to the others I have seen, and should the dagger also have a potmetal pommel? If this is the case, I would like to hunt one down to get the dagger as "original" as possible, or should one leave it as found?

I would really appreciate some opinions or feedback, as I am somewhat isolated in my part of the world. I have searched the forum and all the major dagger sites will no info on this model, hoping it is authentic. My plan is actually to get a good representative Naval Dagger, as this one, although in great shape does not seem to be very popular or mentioned anywhere I can find. I have a couple of pics attached, so any comments would be greatly welcome. Regards to you all...

[GaryMJ]

The pommel and grip

[GaryMJ]

The blade

[Larry Lipps]

Horester Dagger

Gary, if you can get your hands on a copy of Wittmann's book on naval daggers, you can do a ton of research. I've enclosed a couple of items from his book pertaining to Kriegs daggers made by Horster.

1. The Horster firm was active in producing daggers after the end of WWII. Many have been passed off as genuine.

2. Most post war reproductions have the pebbled scabbards that are about an inch too long.

3. The post war scabbard throat is held in place by one centered, headless screw on the reverse.

4 The presence of small wooden pegs to retain the grip wire ends on post war pieces.

5. Avoid blades having a large etched "H" trademark, sans oval border. Earlier period Horster blades will reflect a stamped trademark.

6. Horster aparently used a pommel used by several other makers that has a distinct brow line over the eagles eye and is somewhat taller than those used by other firms.

Wittmann makes reference to "Administrative" naval dirks that have the pot metal fittings and steel scabbards. He also states that he has never seen an original administrative dirk.

Hope this information helps. BTW if you are going to spend much time in the dagger world, Wittmann's series of books is a very wise investment.

[GaryMJ]

Thanks for the info. I have attached another pic of the Horster stamp. I would really be interested to know if this is war period. The scabbard throat is held by 2 headless screws on each side of the scabbard, while the length is about 11.5 inches. The grip seems the same as other Naval Daggers I have seen, and does hot have a peg of any kind. There are 2 tiny holes where the wire is threaded into. The only odd look part of the dagger is the pommel eagle, but some have suggested its standard to this kind?

[Larry Lipps]

Gary, based on the photos in Wittmann's book, yoru pommel does not appear to be the style normally found on Horster daggers. Any chance of getting a straight on photo pf the pommel eagle?

[GaryMJ]

Here's a pic of the pommel Eagle. Any ideas?

[Larry Lipps]

Gary, this particular style is somewhat out of my league and I can only relate how your photos compare to the one in the book. The pommel caption in the book states that the pommel used on Horster (and several other makers) is identifiable by the pronounced brow above the eagle's eye. This brow actually makes the eagle' head appear somewhat squared off. Based on your photo, IMHO the pommel on your dagger does not appear to match this criteria. Because of the unusual variety of your dagger, you might want to post it on www.germandaggers.com and obtain some other opinions.

[GaryMJ]

Thanks for your input on the dagger. I am really new to this category, and not equipped with any of the main-stream reference sources, so your opinions are really helpful. I suspect the pommel is not original to this dagger, I just wish I could find some clear reference of the same with the steel scabbard and alloy fittings. I will give your link a try as well. Thanks...

[Skipper Greenwade]

My initial, best guess is that this is a 'parts' dagger. The example pictured in Wittmann's book has a plain - not etched - blade feauring the late (post-1941) trademark and both the pot-metal pommel and crossguard. He states that the pattern is a "...so-called 'Administrative' Naval dirk". He describes the piece as having "...pot metal hilt fittings and steel base scabbard". He goes on to state that, "This writer has not seen an original administrative dirk." and apparently pictured the piece in his Naval reference for purely illustrative purposes. Tom has probably handled literally thousands of Navy daggers and for him to have never seen an original would be enough to raise a red flag in my mind!

In any event, the piece would be difficult to sell on the collector market, as - given the ready availablilty of nice, reasonable priced Navy daggers - most collectors will opt for a piece they can readily identify/relate to.

Wish I could be more encouraging,

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