HJ engraved: very scarce knife or fake?

[valsente]

Hello guys,
did anyone never see an HJ knife like this one? I've seen only a picture of a similar knife on a French magazine "Gazette des Armes" 1987 but I could not read anything about it.

[Santi]

Hi,
Could you provide more pics of the grips and diamond? I dont want to rush to make an statement but looking those pics, the knife itself looks ok. Im not sure about the engraving. The RZM is quite small compared to the common HJ examples, and if you notice carefully, the engraving is off center (or it is the pic?).
Quite an interesting piece..., more pics would help. I also want to see what the other guys think of this one.
Thanks for posting

[valsente]

Hi Santiago,
I looked at the engraving and noted that it starts from the half of the ricasso and go straight on to the tip of the blade. I'll post some more pics as you requested but the knife seems to be real at all.

[Santi]

Hi Santiago,
I looked at the engraving and noted that it starts from the half of the ricasso and go straight on to the tip of the blade. I'll post some more pics as you requested but the knife seems to be real at all.

Valsente,
Good to know about the engraving isnt off center, it looked like it was in the pic.
Ive searched about this engraving on GDC but havent found anything. Although those kind of engravings could have existed in very rare exceptions, it is very hard to prove it is period-done or a postwar addition, because it isnt something official nor documentated (as far as i know) Perhaps another member could give you much more better info than me, because ive never seen that kind of engraving before. I dont think i could help much.

[Tiger 1]

Is the inscription engraved or is it etched?

These are two different processes.

Tony

[valsente]

Is the inscription engraved or is it etched?

These are two different processes.

Tony

It seems to have been engraved with a great precision.

[valsente]

Here it is a shot of the engraving:

[evilmike]

blimey good close up pic!!!

[evilmike]

the rzm mark is the same style on other daggers ive just looked at so the knife is good... now the fun bit

[RussellM]

Nice looking HJ - I think someone who is more familiar with period writing styles and engraving methods would be able to help with this inscription. Not sure what it is trying to say, but seems to be for an AH March in 1939. Coincidently, I found that on March (Marz) 25, 1939, a new tougher law was introduced concerning compulsory Hitler Youth membership that conscripted all German boys aged 10 into the Hitler Youth. Maybe it has something to do with that.

Regards
Russell

[Santi]

Nice looking HJ - I think someone who is more familiar with period writing styles and engraving methods would be able to help with this inscription. Not sure what it is trying to say, but seems to be for an AH March in 1939. Coincidently, I found that on March (Marz) 25, 1939, a new tougher law was introduced concerning compulsory Hitler Youth membership that conscripted all German boys aged 10 into the Hitler Youth. Maybe it has something to do with that.

Regards
Russell

I agree with Russell. The knife itself it is good in my opinion, but it is hard to prove when the engraving was done. I think now its up to engraving experts or anybody who knows about the existance of that particular engraving.
By the way, interesting info, Russell

[Tiger 1]

The letters look to be mechanically spaced and pantagraph machine engraved using a rotary tool bit. I don't believe it to be factory done as a stencil and and acid etch would be the factory method.

You can see that the flat of the blade was not properly indexed to the cutting path and some of the letters thin out a bit at some points.

Now more questions need to be answered such as....

When was this engraving done? Pre war or post war?

If pre war what was the occassion? Just having AH's name and a date are a bit too ambiguous. What happened in March 1939?

Anyone seen any other examples in reference books, collections or in real time?

The closer we look the more questions seem to need answers.

All the best,

Tony

[Larry Lipps]

While I'm certainly not endorsing this as period engraving, it is interesting to note the swirl pattern in the base of the engraving. It is almost identical to the swirl pattern found on period engraved numbers on the reverse of Golden Party Badges. I would agree that it's not a factory job but the style could be period. Almost impossible to say.

[RussellM]

I stand to be corrected by those more familiar with the German language, but I don't think the inscription has anything to do with the month of March (the month of March in German is, I think, Marz). So, if that is correct, it would seem to be telling us that it is related to a 'march' or 'walk', occuring sometime in 1939 - not really a specific event. If this is so, the reason or purpose of the inscription is very vague.

Regards
Russell

[Ben.H]

From first glance the way i saw it was it was saying adolf hitler - march(month) 1939. Mostly by how the text and inscription are laid out. Which would easily have a faker confused if he didn't know it would have been März in German. Also I haven't seen that font on any other german items. I'm saying this not knowing much about HJ knives or how the engravings are done. Something just doesn't seem right. Way too vauge if it is for a march, cuz i doubt they were marching for all of 1939.