KM-Dagger is it a fake????

[hellracer1]

Hello,

I buy these KM-Dagger with the marker F.W. Höller, Solingen, in another Forum they are not sure, that this dagger is an original. What is your opinions??



Thanks for your help

Winfried

[Haydn]

.

What are these other opinons saying is wrong with this Holler? I would like to think that if you sell something through the e-strand, if anyone saw something they were not happy with, they would question it or at least send a pm to the seller pointing out their suspicions. I'm sorry that someone has doubted your purchase, I hope someone here can give you an idea as to whether this has any problems.

regards
haydn..

[Johnny "the kid"]

I believe that the makers mark should be stamped not etched (looks etched in the pic. but I could be wrong).
These were made post-war (and are stil made today with a different pommel) you have to be careful.
I think better, closer, pictures are needed to tell you anything more.
Good hunting,
Johnny

[Stu W]

My thoughts

Hello Winfried,

This is what concerns me...the maker mark on yours differs from authentic ones I have seen in at least two ways.

First, the thermometer has 17 ticks on good examples I have seen. The ticks are well defined and evenly spaced. Yours appears to have 19 and they do not appear well defined and evenly spaced to me.

Second, the lettering appears significantly thinner than I have seen on authentic Holler daggers, be they KM, Heer or Luft.

I must agree with Johnny though that better pictures are needed. At least for me. I hope that this version is good, but these are points I would check further on if I were you.

Regards,
Stu

[Johnny "the kid"]

Stu
Legitimate Holler maker marks have been known to have 9, 11, 15, and 17 "gradients" depending on the mark, all are good, the number of marks is not as important as whether or not the mark is etched. If it is acid etched then it is a post-war repro. Otherwise I see nothing wrong eith the "number" of lines in the thermomiter. Gernerally speaking anyway the repros have very few (such as 5 or 7).
In any case MINTY naval daggers with 100% of their scaqbbard finish are always suspect. They just never seemed to hold up that well...
Good hunting,
Johnny

[Stu W]

Learn something new (gradient) every day.

Hello Johnny,

Thanks for that "gradient" information. Hopefully this item will be just fine then and a nice addition to Winfried's collection.

Regards,
Stu

[Larry Lipps]

I guess we need to hear from Winfried as to whether the maker's mark is stamped or etched. From the photo it looks etched to me.

[David Guist]

Hello just because no one say any thing doesnt make it good on this forum. Some one else recently made the same mistake. Bst regards.

[Tiger 1]

Hi Gents!

Holler naval daggers can have both stamped and etched tms. The thin etched Holler tm is a correct and accepted marking on naval daggers. The thick style Holler tm etch will be ocassionaly seen on army and luft daggers.This blade looks to be fine.

There are a couple of other things that raise questions. The scabbard bands with the engraved ball tops where the rings pass thru are a known WKC feature on some of their earlier scabbards.

Then there is the eagle's head on the pommel which seems a bit different than usually seen. It is definately not the 1938 replacement pommel for retrofitting to the earlier Model 1929 naval dagger before the factory nazified Model 1938 daggers became available. I don't know if it is the correct one that Holler used. I will have to check out this feature and report back as I'm not for sure certain of that fact at the moment.

Hope this helps.

Tony.

[Tiger 1]

Back again.

Just checked my sources. Wittmann's and the early Holler in my collection.

The ball ends apparently were available on some Holler scabbards . The scabbard bands look to be the correct fairly straight edges. I cannot see clearly where the scabbard throat screws are placed but it doesn't look like they are on the wide part of the scabbard throat.

The pommel eagle also looks correct for an in house Holler product.

The crossguard as the the correct protruding nipples on the ends that are another Holler charactoristic.

What I can not see clearly is whether the grip wire is the springy type instead of just the twisted brass wire style. Holler was the only one who used this distinctive wire on a naval dagger.

From what I see and the comparisions to known originals I would say that this dagger is okay.

It appears that my memory wasn't quite up to snuff on the details today.

All the best,

Tony

[Wim Vangossum]

I can find myself in the things pointed out by Tiger1. It has a lot of correct typical Höller characteristics.

Regards, Theo

[Skipper Greenwade]

While no photos are ever a good substitute for an in-the-hand inspection, I would say this dagger is okay as well. No real concerns based on anything in the photos

Best,
Skip

[hellracer1]

Hello,
thanks for all comments, here are 4 more pictures, I hope its help

Regards

Winfried

[Tiger 1]

[Skipper Greenwade]

The additional photos help...I don't have a problem with this dagger

Nice find!
Skip