ugly daggers?

[steve h]

hello all, i just posted in a thread over on gdc which was enquiring as to the reason for the change from the 1st to 2nd pattern luft. anyhow in the course of the discussion, another member expressed the opinion that the second luft is the ugly of all uglies in tr daggers. i agree with him, the thing looks to me like a mismatched parts dagger, it doesn`t `sit` right, and the eagle on the crossguard looks childish by comparison with the standard of art/design on most other tr items.
even now, after years of collecting, i still don`t own one. i can`t bring myself to part with `hard-earned` for one! someday i`ll have to bite the bullet, i know, but not yet!!.

this brings me to the point of this thread, what in your opinion is the real `dog` ugly dagger?. be as subjective as you like!. come on , get it off your chests!.

[Military Trader]

To me an early 2nd pattern Luft is one of my favorites. A nice deep orange handle or white one that has turned with patina and looks ivory. The "squiggly" silver wire wrap. And some nice custom hangers. I don't know why they changed (durability of the early leather handles??? Wanting to be more like the army???) but to me they are pure class.

[steve h]

fair enough!. so which one is your `least favourite`?.

[Luftm40]

My feeling is just the opposite regarding the Luft daggers. I much prefer the 2nd patterns. I think the design was changed as an update of sorts. The first patterns look more like something from the 19th century to my eye. The second patterns have the 40s, slightly decco look to them. Also, the 2nd patterns would have been easier to mass produce...

[Larry Lipps]

It's interesting to me that most collectors either love of hate the 2nd model Luft. There doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground. Personally, I prefer the 2nd model over the first. Mainly because I don't care for the look of the sunwheel swaz. My ultra ugly is the RAD enlisted. Why not just carry a hatchet?

[Colorado]

RLB enlisted, gets my ugly nod. That eagle is not good!

[Billy G]

I'm with Jeff regarding the RLB daggers, that eagle is just not cool. I've always been on a fence about the 2nd Luft as far as ugly or not, but I did feel the need to find a nice one. I think the 1st Luft is a cooler design but was definitely more expensive to produce & had to be more unwieldy to carry with that long blade. Imagine how it was to carry one of those early 55 cm DLVs.

[Eric Hall]

Hi Steve, Yes that was me that said how ungly the 2nd Luft is.

I think at the time aluminum would have almost been a new "space age" material that the Air Force might have wanted in the 2nd model dagger. But the mix of materials didnt age the same and today they really do look like a mix matched parts dagger. I only have one in my collection just as a representive piece.

The early non-aluminum first model is much more elagent IMO.

The Land custom dagger is also very poorly put together. Everytime I see or hold one It looks like a reproduction.

[Lassi]

LW 2nd model is one of my favorite daggers no doubt
The most ugly must be the RAD both types looks like something made for cutting the cake....when I see it I come to think of Görring

Cheers
Lars

[Stahlhelm]

Well, this is an interesting and refreshingly differnt type of thread.

I personally do prefer the early, 1st Model nickel-fitted type. I like the more 19th century look, and I feel it has much more character and visual impact. I also like the unusual sonnenrad/sunwheel design. The nickel-fitted type also has, I believe, a richer look, especially with the presence of any aging on the fittings. But, that's just my opinion. The 1st Model is also currently the only type I have, although I'm sure I'll eventually get a 2nd Model too, at least to complete my collection.

I do like the 2nd Model, just not as much. They are immensely more common at the militaria shows and internet sites, so I don't feel in any hurry to get one. It seems that every (and I do mean EVERY) dagger dealer has 2nd Models, and not every dealer has the 1st. I'm also sure this isn't because they prefer not to have it. Last year, I got the one-and-only best-looking, best-conditioned early, 1st Model Luftwaffe at the whole OVMS SOS, and I don't regret it one bit. As a matter of fact, it was one out of a total of maybe a dozen at the whole show, in contrast to such an amount of 2nd Models that I lost count. I also now see that prices for something comparable to what I have are now considerably higher. Also, it seems to me that prices for the 1st Model are, on average, considerably more than prices for the 2nd.

As for why they stopped making the 1st Model, I have read that it was in order to update the dagger to a more 20th century design. Even if that is the case, I still like the 1st Model best--even if it is a 19th century design. After all, I know the ever-popular SS Daggers, which I also own, are also based on a Medieval Holbein Dagger design. In the end, I know it's all about opinion, and that's what my post is all about.

Chris

P.S. As for the "ugliest dagger," I do agree that it's the RAD. I don't believe I'll ever be adding any of those to my collection, even in completing it.

[Stahlhelm]

Due to some sort of computer/internet problems I'm having, my earlier post accidentally got posted again. So, I just deleted it, and typed an explanation. I hope that's an acceptable procedure.

Sorry about that,

Chris

[Skipper Greenwade]

The RAD hewers are certainly not going to win any beauty contests, but IMO nothing says ugly like the NPEA pieces. Looks like someone took an SA dagger and put it in a scabbard that was made by my 5 year-old nephew and painted at Earl Scheib's

Best,
Skip

[Colorado]

Skip - Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

You are going to hurt Ron Weinand's feeling with that comment.

[Stahlhelm]

Yes, I agree that the NPEA pieces are also quite a rival in the ugly department.

Chris

[steve h]

agreed, the npea`s and RAD`s would come second and third on my `ugly` list.

for me the plain old heer`s are the prettiest, so close in design to the 2nd luft`s, but a million miles away in style points. i also like the red cross officer`s dagger, but that may be because it looks like a heer!!.