F.W. Höller, Berlin?

[sleepy_cats]

Hello experts,

In a militaria shop I saw a dagger with "F.W. Höller, Berlin" engraved on the blade.
Is this a fake? Normally the Höller manufactury was in Solingen, or am I wrong?
It looks very authentic. Maybe only the blade is counterfeit?

I would appriciate your comments.

Thanks in advance,

Markus

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Markus, welcome to the forum.

You are correct and right to be wary, F.W. Höller were based in Solingen. Beware of any Berlin marked daggers the vast majority are fake.

Cheers, Ade.

[Daggerob]

This is what a real Holler TM should look like.
"Too many lines to count"... as some will say.

[Daggerob]

I'll try again.

[dblmed]

Berlin = No

Yes, the TM should be exactly as shown.

Holler / Berlin = RUN ... It was used by the Fakers to get around some Trade Mark infringement, if I remember correctly, from Stephens book "Reproduction / Recognition."
Dave/dblmed

[Larry Lipps]

There's also a big debate on the amount and placement of lines on the thermometer as to what constitutes a real maker's mark. The one shown is what I've always used as a good reference.

[SwordFish]

Keep in mind, even some of the FW's with the Solingen mark are repros as well. I had one. A 1st mod Luft, FW, Solingen. Crumby thermometer. The marks on it were not very distint and I could only count something like 10 or 11. I would date this piece I had to the mid to late 70's...just a guess. Aluminum type, lighter color Moroccan blue leather. Not the nice dark type usually associated with the Luft 1stys and Fliegers. Also beward of the 2nd mods as well.

Just some info.
T

[BOB K. (RKSS)]

Hi Markus, welcome to the forum.

You are correct and right to be wary, F.W. Höller were based in Solingen. Beware of any Berlin marked daggers the vast majority are fake.

Cheers, Ade.

>>> The only Trademark (I'm aware of) that is authentic, & contains "BERLIN" is HACO.

[BOB K. (RKSS)]

Keep in mind, even some of the FW's with the Solingen mark are repros as well. I had one. A 1st mod Luft, FW, Solingen. Crumby thermometer. The marks on it were not very distint and I could only count something like 10 or 11. I would date this piece I had to the mid to late 70's...just a guess. Aluminum type, lighter color Moroccan blue leather. Not the nice dark type usually associated with the Luft 1stys and Fliegers. Also beward of the 2nd mods as well.

Just some info.
T

>>> ORIGINAL Leather COLOR of 1st Luft, DLV, & Luft swords is PRUSSIAN BLUE, & this is a lighter bright shade of blue. When You see DARK Blue leather (Navy Blue): that shows that it was Greased, shoe polished, or re-dyed, or has darkened from age, & poor storage.

[JAYP]

F.W.Holler Berlin and Paul Weyersberg Berlin are trademarks used on Spanish reproduction daggers.I have seen this marking on LW 2nd,Govt.officals,Army Daggers and Goring Industrial daggers all of Spanish origin.Jay Parisi

[SwordFish]

>>> ORIGINAL Leather COLOR of 1st Luft, DLV, & Luft swords is PRUSSIAN BLUE, & this is a lighter bright shade of blue. When You see DARK Blue leather (Navy Blue): that shows that it was Greased, shoe polished, or re-dyed, or has darkened from age, & poor storage.

It is my understanding that the correct terminology for the leather grip/scabbard color is "Morroccan Blue" (spelled incorrectly I presume). Perhaps on DLV, the blue may be a shade lighter. Fleigerschwerts and 1st mods should be dark. Please correct me if Im wrong.

Thank you gents,
T

[Larry Lipps]

Since I'm not certain exactly how to define Prussian or Moroccan Blue, I'm going to quote Wittmann's book on what he says about color. He states that the covering is of fine grained, blue, Moroccan Leather. He also states that well perserved examples will be of a lighter shade than worn or handled examples, especially on the DLV Glider Pilot's knife. That being said, we're not talking baby blue, but only a couple shades different depending on handling and storage.

[SwordFish]

10-4 Larry. John Angolia also refers to it as Moroccan Blue as well.

T

[Larry Lipps]

I got the impression that Moroccan leather was a style of leather, not a color. The only color description provided was, well, blue.

[BOB K. (RKSS)]

I got the impression that Moroccan leather was a style of leather, not a color. The only color description provided was, well, blue.

I'd post photos of near mint DLV, 1st Luft., & Luft. sword; that show the original color of leather, but don't see how to do that, here.