1st Model RLB-EM Dagger in aluminium?

[medes]

Hello collectors,

I`m a new Member from Germany. So my english is not the best...sorry for that.

I have a question:
I own a 1. Model RLB-EM Dagger. The crossguard and pommel are made from aluminium.

But I´m not shure, if that combination is authentic!? Did anyone here really know if 1st Model RLB-EM-Daggers in aluminim are really made before 1938?

Medes.

My dagger:

[Wim Vangossum]

What's happend with that Swastika

Regards, Theo

[medes]

It`s all OK with the swastika!!

I had change it because it is not allowed to show swastikas in german
forums. And its the same picture i had already shown in a german forum....

Medes

[Larry Lipps]

Does it have a maker's mark?

[medes]

Yes, its an Witte-Kroneck.

Medes

[Wim Vangossum]

Hi,

The RLB dagger is not my collection field but a checked some files. It sounds a little bit strange. If I'm right many first models were turned into 2nd when the new dagger came into service. Early fittings were made from solid nickel(?) and Brass that was silvered or nickel plated. Very late examples from aluminium.

Regards, Theo

[medes]

Hello Theo,

you are right. The early Models are made from nickel plated brass or a
material that name in German is "Neusilber" wich is an alloy from Nickel.
There are no solid Nickel fittings! The material often named Nickel is always "Neusilber".

Yes there are Daggers where the RLB insignia was changed to the swastika
to get the second model.

But here is an Aluminium RLB. Mostly known for late pieces. But it have the
early RLB insignia.
The question is, can it be or was the insignia "re-changed" ...

Medes

[Wim Vangossum]

Ok, here is something else a found in one of Wittmann's descriptions. He descripted a later style 2nd model RLB (enlisted men) from Ernst Erich Witt as fitted with a lower scabbard mount made of nickel plated steel instead of neusilber. So I guess an early one had always a neusilber mount. If your scabbard mout is magnetic then their is a possibillity that they changed the emblem. I hope this will help you a little bit into the good direction. otherwise I will try to find some more info (Once I have got the time )

Regards, Theo

[medes]

Hi

Here is what Tom Wittmann says about the dagger:

"There is nothing wrong with your Ernst Witte-produced RLB em with 1st Model insignia. This dagger is completely authentic. The base metal is a zinc-base, lightweight type. I have had RLB's like this in the past. The Witte company products were usually cheaper made than the Weyersberg, WKC and Gustav Spitzer types. Often, the RLB pieces that exist with no blade marking were from the Ernst Erich Witte firm, as the etching trademark on their blade was so thinly done, it wore off easily. The grip insignia was not changed - this was just how the Witte company made many of their pieces. An early piece does not have to have "heavy" nickel fittings - many of the Ernst Pack and Alcoso Army daggers from the middle 1930's are equipped with inferior lightweight hilt fittings. These companies were simply trying to make more money using cheaper metals and production methods. When the plating was new, they all looked the same! Hope this helps."

So I think all is Ok....

Medes

[pvluger]

We should call this the windwill RLB

[medes]

pvluger,

please,... explain your reply to me

Medes.

[pvluger]

Because of the change to the swastika...

[medes]

Hi pvluger

maybe my english is to bad, to understand what you are wont to say.

"windwill" - what does it mean?

...change to the swastika?
Do you know more then Wittmann, Johnson, and Burmeister? All have
answer me the same: This dagger
is authentic.

[pvluger]

A little joke on my part, and no a very good one at that. "Windmills" are those large wind fans seen in places traditionally such as Holland.

[lakesidetrader]

Yes Medes, The comment I'm sure was in jest given the "politically correct" swas. Sometimes the joke is lost in the translation.
As far as your dagger I have no issues with it.
It's so very difficult to put rules around things in this hobby there are exceptions. With the collective knowledge of so many here most things can be authenticated.
Paul