Full Rohm SA & SS Dagger Rarity

[edwardo]

Knowing that there are more Rohm SA than SS, are the SS worth twice as much to a collector? Also after the purge, why would any of these SA/SS men not ground out the dedication. In terms of rarity it seems that the Chained NPEA Dagger is much more rare and therefore should command a slightly higher premium versus the Rohm SS and a 2x premium versus the Rohm SA. Thoughts?

[Anthony N]

I do find it very starnge that a member of the SS would not have sent his dagger in to be ground, i can't think of many reasons for this.
I can see why a member of the SA might not, after all he was their leader & had brought them great power for a while within the Third Reich so i'm sure he had many supporters within the SA.
I can't see him having had many supporters within the SS & considering that at this time the SS showed blind allegiance to the Fuhrer who in the SS would ignore an order?
Which brings this dagger novice to the question, are there fake Rohm daggers?

[Daggerob]

Remember that the early SS was formed from, and considered to be a part of the SA.
Himmler was a chinless chicken farmer/warrior wanna-be, who was originally a subordinate to Rohm.
Rohm was a professional military officer and a combat veteran/war hero, who was essential to the rise of the NSDAP.

There would have been some quiet loyalty to Rohm in the SS, at least among the original members who joined in the 1920s when Rohm was still in Hitler's favor.

Yes, there are fake Rohm (and Himmler) daggers.

[Anthony N]

Thanks for the info Robert,
Ant.

[Daggerob]

You are welcome Ant.

edwardo:
Rarity (supply) is one half of the price equation.
Desirability (demand) is the other.
The stigma of evil (infamy) associated with the SS has caused their items to be prized by collectors above comparably scarce pieces from other organizations such as the NPEA.

[Ron Weinand]

Rohm Rarity

With my experience with NPEA Leader's Daggers and the Rohm inscriptions, I can tell you that an unground SS Rohm Dagger is much more rare than an NPEA Leader's Dagger.
The number of good SS Rohm Daggers that I have seen over the 50 years in this hobby is far less than the NPEA Leader's, even though the NPEA Dagger is indeed very rare.
In the NPEA organization there were around 500 instructors who would have been entitled to the NPEA Chain Dagger and there were many teachers who would have passed through the NPEA School System during its ten year span. (see my new book on the NPEA School Daggers: "Waffenleite presenting NPEA Daggers of the Third Reich")
I believe that so few full inscription SS Rohm Daggers exist that they number in the range of the damascus political honor daggers, although the demand isn't as great and the reproductions tend to scare the beginning collectors away.
Ron Weinand

[DJ Roach]

SS Rohm

Ron
"I believe that so few full inscription SS Rohm Daggers exist that they number in the range of the damascus political honor daggers, although the demand isn't as great and the reproductions tend to scare the beginning collectors away."

What you said above is a most illuminating statement.....

I've seen far more than we "Should see", also. I have always believed that someone, somewhere, has put a bunch of fakes on the market (AND Not many can tell, even some of the "experts") judging by the numbers of SS Rohms that we see floating around....

That can Not be.......without some help by someone to enlarge the numbers. My opinion and sorry if I changed the course of this topic.
Denny

[Ron Weinand]

We, as collectors, have an advantage in ascertaining the authenticity of the M33 SS Roehm Dagger. If you learn some of the important facts that identify the originals, reproductions become more easy to spot than in the case of many of the other Third Reich daggers.
1. All are manufactured only by Eickhorn, utilizing the small double oval TM.
2. ALL Roehm Honor Daggers by Eickhorn have higher quality fittings (higher nickel content and a yellow hew to the fittings) and the finish of the grip and the lacquer application to the scabbard is different from the standard Eickhorn M33 SS Dagger (this is readily seen when comparing these daggers over time).
3. Reddick blades (IMO the best reproduction blades where this dagger model is concerned) exhibit a slightly blue tint to the metal finish color and the crossgraining is slightly different. (Fortunately this is evident on blades in the better condition grades where price is more extreme).
4. As a rule, almost all Eickhorn Roehm Dagger crossguards exhibit the Eickhorn assembler number on the lower fitting (another limiting factor to observe when checking for originality).
There are a couple of other factors that I look for when checking originality that I will not disclose at this time, but that allow me to confirm my evaluation.
So, are there reproductions of this dagger? Yes, but it doesn't need to be a reason to abandon the hunt for an original IMO.
Ron Weinand
Weinand Militaria

[HunterSS]

The actual order to issue the Rohm dedication daggers was signed Feb. 3 , 1934 by Rohm. The SS issues were to have been stamped with special SS identification numbers on the reverse lower crossguard ( 25% to 35% have been found with these serial numbers). In April of 1934 Himmler required recipients of the dagger to have a certificate of authorization ( which are indeed rare). There were only 9900 SS daggers issued including makers Boker, Richard Abr. Herder, Eickhorn, Klass, Hammesfar and Kober which is a rarer maker. The smaller trademarks are found on these daggers. If attempting to purchase one I'd advise you to get Wittman's book which had some great photos!
Ron did you mean that "all Eickhorn" daggers had the small oval trademark?