SD Dagger - Help With Markings Please

[TobyR]

Hi Everybody!

Can anyone explain to me the significance of the marks on this Sicherheitsdienst Dress Dagger. As you can see from the photo it is marked both on the scabbard and on the crossguard, 'S.D.IV.991'. Presumably, this is a region mark, as per SA daggers.

The dagger is by PD Luneschloss. There's also a mark on the spine of the blade. Is this some sort of quality control mark?

And finally, how rare is it to find SD daggers, such as this, with both the crossguard and scabbard marked?

Thanks for your time.

Cheers,
Toby.

[TobyR]

And here's the mark on the spine of the blade:

[Skipper Greenwade]

Toby,

The pictures you posted are of a dress bayonet and the markings on the crossguard are accountability numbers that pre-date the Third Reich era and, as such, most likely do not refer to the Sicherheitsdienst, but rather to the bayonet's prior history of service with a policeman in the state of Sachsen. I looked at two of my bayonets and one features a number on the reverse quillion and upper scabbard fitting not unlike yours, but with the two letter prefix "SK" instead of "SD". The other simply has a two digit number in very small characters stamped on the quillion and upper scabbard fitting.

A close look at your bayonet will probably reveal signs that it was cut down from a longer, Weimar-era, Landespolizei bayonet.

The markings are commonly encountered on these bayonets, but if the numbers on the quillion and upper scabbard fitting match, the value is enhanced over that of a bayonet with mismatched numbers.

Skip

[TobyR]

Hi Skip,

Thanks for replying. You're right mine would appear to have been shortened. I actually found a match on the web. Here's the link:

http://65.160.172.250/daggers/d118.html

It's on Third Reich Depot. His also has a marking similar to mine. Though I notice in both cases there's a period between the S and D, i.e. 'S.D.' followed by a number in Roman numerals. What do you make of this? I guess I'm a little confused. Would the bayonets, both mine and the one on Third Reich Depot have been used by the police (i.e. Polizei as opposed to SD)?

Thanks again for your time.

Toby.

[Skipper Greenwade]

Toby,

As a rule, bayonets with the staghorn grip plates and leather scabbards are almost always Police bayonets - either from the early years of the Third Reich or the period immediately preceding it. The black leather scabbards were for the municipal police departments and the brown leather were carried by the rural policemen.

Most of the time, the obverse grip plate will have the wreath, eagle & swastika insignia of the police affixed (this is evident on the bayonet in the link you posted). If not, you should be able to see the holes left behind from the old, Weimar-era grip insignia which was removed when the bayonets were being re-worked during the early years of the Reich.

I am certain that both your bayonet and the one on the Third Reich Depot site are police bayonets that were re-worked for use by the Third Reich police forces.

[Tiger 1]

Municipal Police Bayonet.

Hello Toby,

As some of the others posted above, you have a Municipal Police bayonet with the property accountability numbers S.D. IV. 991.

The "S" indicates Schutzpolizei or Municipal Police.
The "D" is for Administrative District Dusseldorf.
The "IV" is the police duty location or station.
The "991" is the weapon accountability number.

The *B (star B) stamp on the spine of the blade is a police proof or acceptance stamp pre-Third Reich era.

Seems that you have a nice matching number bayonet. Hope this answers some of your questions.

Best regards and good hunting.

[TobyR]

Skip / Tiger,

Thanks for the info. Forgive me for overly prolonging the discussion but I thought you might be interested as to why I came to believe it to be an SD bayonet (aside from the (claimed) SD bayonet posted on another site (link as above).

Here's an extract from; "Collectors' Handbook Of WWII German Daggers" by LTC (Ret'd) Johnson (sorry if I'm infringing copyright but it's in the name of research). The section in the book is titled: German Edged Weapon Blade Dedications, Mottoes & Inscriptions. Johnson mentions that the list is by no means complete.

From what you've both said it would seem that I've misinterpreted Johnson's information.

By the way, if it's a municipal police bayonet as opposed to an SD one, the price of $700 for the one shown on the above link would seem a little optimistic!

Thanks again for your time and sorry to keep going on about this.

Cheers,
Toby.

[Skipper Greenwade]

Toby,

I agree that $700.00 is probably a little high for the bayonet in question, but you can't blame a guy for trying...just look at what some of that junk on e-bay sells for!

The abbreviations from Johnson's book refer to blade mottoes from the Third Reich era. Since the numbers were applied pre-Third Reich, they referred to the information Tiger 1 posted, but since you had no way of knowing the numbers were pre-Third Reich, I can see how one would make the assumption.

Best,
Skip