EUF Horster Naval Dagger with part numbers ?

[riddick]

Hi all, Would like opinion on what the matching 2 digit numbers are on several photos included for this dagger.
Night time photos under artificial light but numbers are clear enough on the parts.

[Billy G]

They would appear to be part numbers for assembly, I have Navy daggers by Puma and Richard Herder with the same thing.

[thebig]

They would appear to be part numbers for assembly.

Yes, they are.
Best,
Oleg

_____________________
www.kriegsmarinedolch.de

[riddick]

Thanks guys , do the part numbers run in batches of say 1-100 then restart again to 1 (specifically euf horster versions) as im not familar with horster euf & whats the difference between EuF & E&F , i read somewhere EuF is a commercial trademark & if this is correct why did they use it sometimes & what period(s) was it used ?

[Bulldog]

Good questions and hopefully someone can answer them. 4 in my collection that I have seen numbered are all 2 digit numbers. All I can say about the maker-mark is that the stamped mark is their earlier one and the etched is later. Your dagger is a nice one with their earlier M38 eagle pommel which fits in nicely with the earlier stamped mark. Look forward to hearing an explanation about the EuF & E&F.

Russ.

[thebig]

Good questions and hopefully someone can answer them. 4 in my collection that I have seen numbered are all 2 digit numbers. All I can say about the maker-mark is that the stamped mark is their earlier one and the etched is later. Your dagger is a nice one with their earlier M38 eagle pommel which fits in nicely with the earlier stamped mark. Look forward to hearing an explanation about the EuF & E&F.

Russ.

Hi Russ,
I've also only seen 2 digit assembly numbers so far. In my opinion, this dagger has a replacement eagle.
Best,
Oleg.

______________________
www.kriegsmarinedolch.de

[Bulldog]

Riddick could we see a good pic of the eagle please?

Russ.

[riddick]

Hi Russ , 4 photos attached.

[Bulldog]

Good spot Oleg, it is a "replacement" pommel.

Russ.

[riddick]

So can we elaborate on "replacement" - replica or genuine pommel from another maker ?

[Bulldog]

The pommel on your dagger is good, I have seen the "replacement" on a number of Horster's with stamped maker-marks. The "replacement" pommel is so-called because it was a specially designed M38 eagle pommel made to update M29s to M38s by replacing the ball pommel of the M29. Horster have always puzzled me as I have never seen this maker fit with a ball pommel, but the presence of the "replacement" pommel indicates that the dagger was originally an M29.

Russ.

[riddick]

Hi Russ , thanks for explaining that as im not that familiar with Naval daggers. Had a good look at your website for the very first time , very informative with relative photos to match identification.
I have no idea myself but why do you feel that my dagger could be a M29 with the exchange eagle pommel , is it because of the Horster stamped trademark ? or do other details suggest this?
Also im still really interested in the EuF v E&F Trademark but no-one is offering up reasons for this , i believe EuF used on many bayonets but not so often on daggers & im keen to gain an understanding on reasons why & what appears to be simultaneous period(s). Do you think i should start another topic off on that subject. I appreciate your responses to my questions.

[thebig]

Horster have always puzzled me as I have never seen this maker fit with a ball pommel.

Russ.

Hi Russ,
I have seen three daggers from this maker with stamped maker marks from the same crew. All three had replacement eagles. Like you, I have also never seen a dagger by E.u./&F. Hörster
with a ball pommel.

Best,
Oleg.

______________________
www.kriegsmarinedolch.de

[Bulldog]

No probs Riddick, I'm assuming you looked at Olegs website as I don't have one. The reason your dagger could be an M29 (1929-38) is because in April 38 when the new model (M38) was introduced, already existing daggers such as imperials, M21s and M29s could be updated to the new look M38 by just replacing the pommel with the new look Nazi eagle pommel. To do this a specially designed eagle pommel, the one that is on your dagger, was made and distributed to officers with these earlier models so they could swap the pommel, so the reason its possible that your dagger was an M29 is because it has this specially designed "replacement" pommel.

Russ.

[Bulldog]

Hi Oleg, I have seen quite a few Horster's that look un-messed with and have all the correct parts for Horster but are fit with "replacement" pommels, could it be possible they got a batch of these pommels for their initial production stamped M38s, or do you think they did produce a late M29 and as they were not as big a producer as Eickhorn or WKC all their M29s were updated?

Russ.