Naval Dagger

[Ralph Arndt]

Unmarked Naval dagger plain blade, any opinions on who the maker could be. Thanks for your time, Ralph

[Bulldog]

Fittings are all WKC. I am no longer a believer that these unmarked un-etched WKC's were period produced as I've seen too many of them with unquestionable post-war fittings. I think they were produced shortly after the war for souvenirs, but others may think differently.

Russ.

[Ralph Arndt]

So these are post war fittings.

[Bulldog]

Can't say 100% there post war fittings, they may have used the same period moulds but what I have noticed on a lot of these, including the one I used to own, is that the pommels and crossguards are often poorly cast, which looks the case with the guard on yours, I've also seen these unmarked un-etched examples with solid white plastic post-war grips, post war Eickhorn style scabbards and WKC scabbards with different chapes. These unmarked un-etched examples are often seen with hammered scabbards with plain eyelets, WKC hammered scabbards usually have leaf engraved eyelets, they could be plain because the workers were not there to finish them, and the blades could be plain because there was no officer's to pay the extra cost of the etch, this company usually maker-marked their naval blades as well. I sold mine back to the dealer I bought it off.

Russ

[Ralph Arndt]

I like the reddish hue the fitting have taken on, that's a good sign.

[Frogprince]

I had the same kind of problem/conclusion as Russ with Naval swords. Swords that I at first thought were OK and after some time and study came to the verdict that they were postwar. And then later on saw even more of them that had obviously been modified to make them more "TR". FP

[thebig]

Hi Ralph,
I have no problem with this dagger. Like Russ already said, all the parts are by WKC. I have also no problem with an unmarked daggers.
Simple design and execution without etching and maker’s mark have in my opinion nothing to do with the post-war period, but with production costs.
Best,
Oleg.

___________________________
www.kriegsmarinedolch.de

[Frogprince]

Unmarked private purchase blades by themselves are not a problem, and even seen with some very high quality blades from the Imperial era. It enabled retail outlets like establishments such as uniform shops to switch their sources if and when they wanted to use another source. What I found troubling for example with some of the questionable swords was the use of a modern type of plastic for the grips versus what TR period makers used. FP

[Bulldog]

When you look at all the companies who produced T.R. navy daggers you will see that the only companies fittings consistently found with these unmarked un-etched blades are WKC's, this company along with Eickhorn were by far the two biggest manufacturers of navy daggers in the T.R. period, therefore I cannot see any reason for fittings to differ so much from what is usually seen on their standard daggers (forgot to mention the different scabbard leaf bands that are seen on these unmarked un-etched examples which are found on post-war daggers). The fact that so many of these unmarked un-etched examples are found with so many questionable fittings is an indication that they were nocked up post-war with whatever could be found and is likely the reason we see these with what appear to be period parts (they may not be if period moulds etc were used) mixed with post-war parts and blades. You have to ask, why is it more often than not these types of WKC's have problematic fittings? I can't see how production costs could play a part in it as it was the officer who paid the extra cost for the etch and I would think it would cost a company zero to stamp their mark on a blade.

Russ.

[thebig]

Hi Russ,
each action in the manufacture of daggers entailed costs. Daggers without stamps and etching on the blade were cheaper and could be ordered, for example, by the arms departments of naval units (Waffenmeisterei) or naval schools for distribution to officers and naval cadets at the expense of the navy. We also know enough Reichsmarine daggers without logo or etching.
Best,
Oleg.

_____________________
www.kriegsmarinedolch.de

[Bulldog]

Hi Oleg, would these blades not be navy property marked? even if not there's still too many other problems I see with these WKC's

Russ.

[Ralph Arndt]

I believe this has been answered, on this naval dagger.

[Ralph Arndt]

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[Ralph Arndt]

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[thebig]

Hi Russ,
Yes, but maybe not all daggers? Officers could also buy these daggers from the navy. Maybe the weapons departments had some stock and these daggers were not accepted by the arms departments, but issued or sold immediately? Why do we see this at WKC? Maybe the WKC had some kind of contract with navy? All these are just my assumptions, because I do not have an exact answer. I do not see problems with these daggers, because I consider all their parts to be original. If we are talking about original parts, it is difficult to say for sure when the dagger was assembled. Theoretically, any dagger, even with a logo and etching, could be assembled after the war.
Russ, I hope you understand me correctly. This is not an argument for the sake of argument. This is just my personal opinion, I personally, really have no problems with such daggers.
Kindest regards
Oleg.

_____________________
www.kriegsmarinedolch.de