What Kind of Daggers Are These?

[DonC]

Howdy All -

I just got these dagger hangers in today - the ones that are sort of rust-colored. In all other respects they match the Army dagger hangers I have next to them in in the scans for reference. The $64,000 question is what dagger are they for? I don't think they have oxidized, as the rusty orange color is uniform throughout.

Any thoughts are appreciated!

Don

[DonC]

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[DonC]

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[DonC]

xxx

[DonC]

ccc

[Skipper Greenwade]

Hi Don,

They are both Army dagger hangers, The finish on the one pair has just aged differently - most likely because of a different base metal.

See ya'
Skip

[Frogprince]

I don’t disagree, and think that possibly poor storage in a high humidity environment may also be a contributing factor. FP

[DonC]

Thanks, Skip and FP!

Don

[Skipper Greenwade]

To further clarify, what I've noticed is that the earlier hangers often have fittings of heavier brass or brass-based metal with silver plating while later ones will have pot metal fittings with a silver wash almost like silver paint. The brocade on the earlier hangers contains what I assume to be silver or some other material that actually tarnishes. The earlier hangers develop some real character over the years and are hands down my favorite when buying a set to go with a nice Army dagger.

You will see the same thing with portapees.

Best,
Skip

[Frogprince]

Excellent points on dating the hangers. The painted type coatings were commonly used on badges and are not very durable as compared to electroplating.

To take the topic one step further: If we look (for example) at Luftwaffe swords we see a progression from nickel silver fittings (2/3 copper/nickel/zinc) to anodized aluminum and finally plated zinc fittings. Copper was the first material to be withdrawn from civilian/commercial production as a strategic material. Then aluminum was withdrawn as it became more critical to the German war effort. While zinc has some military applications, they are fewer and supplies were more abundant, and it was the logical material of choice as a substitute. (Nickel was also withdrawn at some point but later.)

Early nickel silver mounted swords were silver plated which sometimes will have some black tarnish like that seen on silverware. The anodized aluminum ones are relatively impervious to anything but physical wear. And the zinc ones will very often suffer hidden corrosion under the plating or finish which causes whatever is on the surface to fall away exposing the base metal.

Looking at the topmost example posted here some of the fittings appear to be zinc with the others possibly being steel (?) which has corroded slightly. This IMO is a later set of hangers and if some of the fittings are in fact steel they should be magnetic. Photographs are tricky, and I’ve been fooled before, but the lower set of hangers don’t seem to show any signs of tarnishing and they appear to me to be possibly earlier using anodized aluminum or a combination of aluminum and something else. If they are they should be physically lighter than the upper pair. FP

[nellyp51]

Both look like heer to me.

Like toe more worn looking pair, awsome.

[DonC]

FP -

I am fairly certain that the "cleaner" pair's fittings are aluminum.

Thanks, All!

Don

[schönbeck]

looks like one has been repaired and the attachment might be replaced, hard tell without better pics....