Wasserschutzpolizei

[Brian S]

A few pics.

[Brian S]

eagle

[Brian S]

blade

[Brian S]

blade 2

[Brian S]

ep&s

[Billy G]

Brian,


This is a very interesting dagger and I'm glad you posted it. I've never seen a Water Protection Police by Pack so it's hard to ascertain what the standard for a Pack piece since we have nothing to compare it to.

I've seen maybe 5 or 6 Pack Navy daggers over the years so that's a start. The springy grip wire is not what I've seen Pack use on Navy daggers (Höller used a similar type), typically they have a double twisted brass wire. The scabbard bands are not what I've seen on Pack Navy scabbards either. I can't say off the top of my head who used these specific scabbard bands.

This maker mark is often a source of heartburn for collectors as it often appears on postwar daggers. I can say I've seen at least one good Navy with the same logo as yours. That dagger had a presented blade and was sold by Gailen David in 2007.

That said, the first thing that jumps out at me is the grip emblem which I think looks great. It's nicely detailed, has a good looking gilt finish with just a touch of wear. Although I can't tell from the pic, it does appear to be somewhat fitted to the grip, which I think shows attention to detail.

The Pack Navy daggers I've seen will show this logo (below) but there's nothing to say a Water Protection dagger will have to have one thing or the other since I don't have another to compare it to. We know the WSP dagger came out in 1938 so the logo should have something of a connection to that time period IMO. I'm sure some of the Navy guys can expound better on the logo.

It's easy to say "It's bad" because it doesn't fit peoples' collective idea of what a WSP dagger is supposed to look like but we sometimes see daggers by previously unseen makers with different or unusual parts which might have been procured by other producers. I have a 1st model Kriegsmarine dagger by Richard Abr. Herder. No one has seen another and some people automatically discount something like that but if you see the dagger, how it's fitted and the even wear and patina, you would know it's correct, just unheard of before.

If you've taken this dagger down before, do you know if there any tang marks or internal markings on the parts? How does the leather seam on the grip look? Just thinking about details that might help with the investigation. Thanks for posting this one.

[Billy G]

Picture credit Stingray69

[Brian S]

Here is some detail of the chased pommel. There is more of the same on the sheath.


Leather seam: nearly invisible.

[Brian S]

Here's an example from Ulric of England's site from an SA dagger. Seems a pretty fair match for an early dagger.

[Brian S]

This website has a nice collection of dagger logos. One on left a near perfect match from my observation.


http://www.germandaggers.com/Gallery/Makers.php

[thebig]

Hi Brian,
I’m sorry but that’s a fake.
Best,
Oleg.

[Brian S]

Oh yeah? Based on...


Oleg you have 287 posts. Don't know who you are. But your 3 word statement holds little value to me.



"Sorry"

[thebig]

Brian,
first of all I have not 287 posts, I have only 208 posts and the value of my 3 word statement isn’t really important for you. But the message behind it is important. Of course someone can write so much in this thread that this thread will take five pages. But the essence can be expressed in just one sentence. What is my statement based on? On the whole mass of "red flags" that this dagger has. In the copy section on my website you can see these “red flags”.
https://www.kriegsmarinedolch.de/kopien/
Of course, everything I said is just my opinion. But something tells me that not only me will have such an opinion about this dagger.
Best,
Oleg.

[Brian S]

I looked on your site...


Pack used more than just the logo you show. And seriously, you don't see an issue between the one you post as a fake WP and mine? OK then...

[Brian S]

The fakes I've seen like the one you show and it clearly demonstrates is the bulbous grip. And of course the emblem... Leather is not grained correctly on yours. Wire is different.
Pommel is different. Your pommel doesn't have a nice gentle curve to the neck of it. Your site is not enlightening me as you imagined it would. Sorry.