Heer Daggers Slant grips types

[Dion]

Hey Guys,

I'm not sure if this topic has been covered here before and please forgive me if I'm chewing over this topic again if it has been discussed, but I noticed some time back that there are obvious differences between the Slant grips on Army daggers?

The first type that I noticed are predominantly featured on the first run of Army daggers dating to early 1935. This one I'll refer to as type 1.
The second type, referred to as type 2 slant grip is on daggers that were produced later in 1935.
If you look at my pics of 2 of my WKC daggers, you'll notice that the one on the left is equipped with a type 1 slant grip and 1st type WKC cross guard, and the one on the right has a type 2 slant grip with second style cross guard. Ive noticed this on other manufacturers as well.

Type 1 slant grip has smaller rounded bulbs and less of a slant angle. Also the sharp edges between the bulbs are not as pronounced.
Type 2 slant grip has "sharper rounded higher" bulbs and much more pronounced sharp edges, as well as a steeper angle of turn.

I'd love to hear some input and opinions from other Army dagger collectors as to whether this was just a manufacturer variant or whether you guys agree with me?

[daggers]

Hello Dion, I think to remember of several contemporary photographs which do show how these army grips are milled - by hand. Sometimes you can also detect the certain traces. So I personally think they are simply a variant from worker to worker who has manufactured them and no variant per se.

There are doubtless several kind and form of amy grips but I doubt that there are different kinds of slant grips.
Just my personal opinion and I am also curious how other collectors think about it.
Greetings, daggers.

[JohnZ]

Dion:

I have two Eickhorn slant grips, one regular and one in ivory. Both look more like your type 2, but I am leaning to daggers explanation for any variations in grip.

John

[Ostmaerker]

some of my slant grips

Ostmaerker

[Dion]

Hmmmm.. that may very well be the case? But if you look at the very earliest army daggers made by the first manufacturers, I.e WKC, Eickhorn and maybe one or two others, they all exhibit the type 1 slant grip. Maybe they all used a grip made by one manufacturer and then a few months later started making their own, or purchasing them from other manufacturers who started making them until the type B grip was introduced.
All I'm saying is, is that I've noticed that the very first examples produced beginning of 1935 all exhibit my type 1 grip.
Bare in mind that there weren't many manufacturers that started producing armies very early on. I personally think that the other producers only started producing army daggers in the later stage of 35, where the demand for the slant grips increased and thereby forcing other grip producers to take up manufacture?

[Dion]

@Ostmaerker,

Beautiful pieces you have there. Unfortunately I cannot make out the grips too well, but looking at your pics, I'd say the first and third pics are my type 1 grips and the second pic is my type 2 slant grip. So according to my theories, and only my humble opinion, the second is later 1935 and the first and third are earlier?
Please mention the makers from pic 1 to 3 and please also state what model cross guards are on the individual daggers. Would be interesting to know?
Sorry, but my eyes are not what they used to be

[Ron Weinand]

Klaas

Scarce Klaas type

[Ostmaerker]

@Ostmaerker,

Beautiful pieces you have there. Unfortunately I cannot make out the grips too well, but looking at your pics, I'd say the first and third pics are my type 1 grips and the second pic is my type 2 slant grip. So according to my theories, and only my humble opinion, the second is later 1935 and the first and third are earlier?
Please mention the makers from pic 1 to 3 and please also state what model cross guards are on the individual daggers. Would be interesting to know?
Sorry, but my eyes are not what they used to be

No problem!

[Dion]

@ Ron,

Beautiful early Klaas you have there. In fact, so early that its equipped with a Pack type one cross guard, indicating to me that Klaas didnt even have their first type cross guard yet? I would expect to see it with a Type 1 slant grip!

My Slant grip Klaas is equipped with my type 2 slant grip and Klaas's first style cross guard, which, they only started producing in the later part of 1935? Hence the reason for me saying that there are 2 distinct types of slant grips depending on the months of 1935. Like I mentioned, its all speculation, but I'm convinced that Eickhorn, who we can generally accept making the earliest of the early Daggers, sold their grips to other early makers in the beginning of 35 before other cottage makers started making their early pieces and bought from another producer of grips?

@ Ostmaerker,

Thanks for those awesome pics mate, those are truely spectacular daggers in beautiful shape!
Could I ask you to show a pic of each daggers grip of the Eickhorn and the Hörster. I'd like to see what type of slant grips they have. Maybe all three next to each other. Thanks for that

Dion

[Ostmaerker]

@ Ron,

Beautiful early Klaas you have there. In fact, so early that its equipped with a Pack type one cross guard, indicating to me that Klaas didnt even have their first type cross guard yet? I would expect to see it with a Type 1 slant grip!

My Slant grip Klaas is equipped with my type 2 slant grip and Klaas's first style cross guard, which, they only started producing in the later part of 1935? Hence the reason for me saying that there are 2 distinct types of slant grips depending on the months of 1935. Like I mentioned, its all speculation, but I'm convinced that Eickhorn, who we can generally accept making the earliest of the early Daggers, sold their grips to other early makers in the beginning of 35 before other cottage makers started making their early pieces and bought from another producer of grips?

@ Ostmaerker,

Thanks for those awesome pics mate, those are truely spectacular daggers in beautiful shape!
Could I ask you to show a pic of each daggers grip of the Eickhorn and the Hörster. I'd like to see what type of slant grips they have. Maybe all three next to each other. Thanks for that

Dion

Eickhorn
Hörster

[Dion]

Hi JohnZ,

Thanks also for your pics and stunning Ivory!!! Still looking for one from Eickhorn.
I noticed that your trolon slant grip would fall into my catagory of type 2 slant grip. But even though your Eickhorn Dagger is early, its not the very first production run as yours is equipped with a scabbard where Eickhorn had already resorted to the single screw at the back. Their very first scabbard examples had double screws, and EVERY single one that I have seen was equipped with the slant grip type 1. I'm by no means an expert on army daggers, but I'd put your dagger in the later 1935 production just before they changed to the type B grips.
This of course is just speculation.

[Dion]

Ostmaerker,

Thanks a ton for your pics. That Eickhorn is TEXTBOOK earliest production. Equipped with my type 1 slant grip all the way! Double screws just what you wanna see.
NOW what would be VERY interesting would be to know whether your Weyersberg dagger is numbered????

However, I dont know exactly when in 1935 Weyersberg started with their production of the army dagger? It certainly wasnt early in 35, which means that when they commenced their production, the type 2 slant grip was already in use. My Weyersberg is also equipped with my type 2 slant grip, and I must admit, I have not come across any with a type 1 slant grip?? Maybe someone has one and could post a pic? And if so, I would bet my rear end that it was numbered!

[Ostmaerker]

Ostmaerker,

Thanks a ton for your pics. That Eickhorn is TEXTBOOK earliest production. Equipped with my type 1 slant grip all the way! Double screws just what you wanna see.
NOW what would be VERY interesting would be to know whether your Weyersberg dagger is numbered????

Its numbered 79

Ostmaerker

[Dion]

Its numbered 79

Ostmaerker

Very Nice!! Awesome to have a numbered one. That number is pretty low, as according to another forum where they did a small experiment, the numbers only go up as far as 250 or so, if I can remember correctly?
So yours was one of the first made by Weyersberg. Congrats on owning that one!

Dion