German field radio in a new FILM

[LA6NCA]

hello

I got this mail from movie scriptwriters.
Do you have any information to them?

Regards LA6NCA
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Hello:

I have spotted your website http://www.laud.no/ww2/ as I'm searched for some basic information on German field radios that would have been used in France 1940. My wife and I are writing a film script and we want to be accurate. We do not know much about radios, but would like your guidance for a couple of issues.

1. Would a radio like the Torn.Fu.b1 be used by the German army in the field in May/June 1940, in France? If this radio would not be used, what type of radio would be used in the field for two-way voice transmission?
2. Can this type of radio be used to transmit and receive voice messages?
3. Would this type of radio, have the same or similar vacuum tubes that a commercial radio of that time could also use? Are some of the radio components the same in military and commercial radios?

Many Thanks

David

[Funksammler]

hello

I got this mail from movie scriptwriters.
Do you have any information to them?

Regards LA6NCA
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hello:

I have spotted your website http://www.laud.no/ww2/ as I'm searched for some basic information on German field radios that would have been used in France 1940. My wife and I are writing a film script and we want to be accurate. We do not know much about radios, but would like your guidance for a couple of issues.

1. Would a radio like the Torn.Fu.b1 be used by the German army in the field in May/June 1940, in France? If this radio would not be used, what type of radio would be used in the field for two-way voice transmission?
2. Can this type of radio be used to transmit and receive voice messages?
3. Would this type of radio, have the same or similar vacuum tubes that a commercial radio of that time could also use? Are some of the radio components the same in military and commercial radios?

Many Thanks

David

The smaller types radios (the Torn.Fu's) were typically available at company level.

1. Yes, typically the Torn.Fu.b1 and Torn.Fu.d2 where used by infantry, while the Torn.Fu.f was used by artillery observation teams
2. Yes, all these sets could be used to transmit either voice or morse
3. No, the Torn.fu's uses "wehrmachtstoehren" or army valves that were not commercially available.

Other portable radio sets were also used but in smaller numbers. Heavier, mostly vehicle borne sets (the FU-sets) where also commonly used at higher echhelons.

Hope this helps,

Funksammler

[Val]

3. Would this type of radio, have the same or similar vacuum tubes that a commercial radio of that time could also use? Are some of the radio components the same in military and commercial radios?

That third question is very interesting...what would be the movie plot? Are they trying to repair the radio with the components from the commercial radio? Some components could be used - resistors, capacitors - but everything depend on the plot...

[LA6NCA]

Reply from scriptwriter

Thank you very much Helge for your help and that of your friends, Funksamler & Val.


For Funksamler & Val:

In our story is set in June 1940, in the Dunkirk area of France as the German army advances. We want our 'hero' to steal a component from a German army radio and use it to repair a commercial radio (a high quality German made model) that is in a French farmhouse

1. Sounds like a 'resistor' or 'capacitor' component (rather than a valve) from the army radio could be used in the commercial radio...is that correct?

2. Also is it possible that the commercial radio could 'pick up' German radio (voice) transmissions? I know that they might not work on the same wavelengths, but could someone with a good understanding of radios make it do that? The film script we are working on is not a documentary, but an adventure film, so we don't have to be totally correct, we can leave some aspects open to the viewers imagination. The scene we want to have is our 'hero' listening into the German transmissions from the farmhouse radio he has repaired.

Currently we have the German army radio in the back of a military tuck.

Your help and suggestions are very welcome.

David

[Funksammler]

In principal all the components could have been used to build or repair an improvised radio but it would require a very competent radio engineer to do so.

First of all the german radio sets are very compactly built, it is actually very difficult to remove individual parts without proper tools and a good idea of what you are doing. Certainly not something you could snatch and grab in a hurry...

Secondly, although the valves could relatively easily be removed, the radio engineer would have needed documentation to use the valves in a new circuit. Civilians encountering German technology would have never seen these valves before and would not have access to their documentation. It would be very difficult to find out how to connect the valves and what supply voltages to use.

In my opinion it would be more credible if the hero of the story actually discovered and took the complete radio and managed to work out how to operate it....

regards,

Funksammler

[Val]

Thank you very much Helge for your help and that of your friends, Funksamler & Val.


For Funksamler & Val:

In our story is set in June 1940, in the Dunkirk area of France as the German army advances. We want our 'hero' to steal a component from a German army radio and use it to repair a commercial radio (a high quality German made model) that is in a French farmhouse

1. Sounds like a 'resistor' or 'capacitor' component (rather than a valve) from the army radio could be used in the commercial radio...is that correct?

2. Also is it possible that the commercial radio could 'pick up' German radio (voice) transmissions? I know that they might not work on the same wavelengths, but could someone with a good understanding of radios make it do that? The film script we are working on is not a documentary, but an adventure film, so we don't have to be totally correct, we can leave some aspects open to the viewers imagination. The scene we want to have is our 'hero' listening into the German transmissions from the farmhouse radio he has repaired.

Currently we have the German army radio in the back of a military tuck.

Your help and suggestions are very welcome.

David

The hero could steal the fully functional HF (high frequency) module from the german military radio and then make out from it a frequency converter to listen military frequences on the commercial radio where normally are not possible to listen those frequencies. Such a converters are widely used among radio amateurs to expand frequency.

And he also can use military tubes to repair commercial radio - some changes has to be made in radio schematics so that new tube fits in the meaning of parameters, but it works.

[LA6NCA]

More info from the scriptwriter

Dear Helge, Funksammler & Val:


Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year.


One last question....I should have also asked if it is possible to 'pick up' German radio (voice) transmissions with a fox-hole radio set (that's a home made radio set similar to a crystal set).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxhole_radio

Again we have a little 'artistic licence' here.

The 'hero' in our story is an amateur radio guy, who builds one with materials he finds on a farm (eg. razor blade and a pencil). From what we're seen they were built by soldiers in both WWI and WWII.

Again, thank you for taking the time to share with your friends and answer our questions. We want our story to be believable and you are helping us to do just that.

db

[Val]

The 'hero' in our story is an amateur radio guy, who builds one with materials he finds on a farm (eg. razor blade and a pencil). From what we're seen they were built by soldiers in both WWI and WWII.

Technically it's possible, however question is here plausibility. First he had to know the frequency - from where he gets this info? Secondly - he might build it, if this is his one and only option - like he is prisoner. If he have another options (and he is HERO and carries a gun) - more plausible would be that he acquires in some another way what he needs - why waste time. he could attack germans and steal radio, he might discover funkwagen in the woods that either had took hit or run on the mine or maybe our hero attacks the funkwagen himself? To make things more interesting - the radio might get damaged and needs repairing. Here is possibility to show real funkwagen setup to the last zubehör, real radios.

Also, if the hero is HAM, he might work in the german radio factory and get from there everything he needs.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

[Funksammler]

In theory yes, but were he to pick up a german portable transmitter, it needs to be pretty close. These primitive chrystal receivers could pick up very strong broadcasting transmitters, emitting 1000's of watts, while the German sets emitted only a few watts. Key to the Christal set working would be the size of the antenna. The Torn.Fu.b1 worked from 3-5 Mhz; this equates to a wavelenght of 60-100 Meters. The minimum antenna length would be about a quarter of that, about 20 meters. Better if the antenna was a multiple of that. Your hero would have a challenge hiding this big antenna from view, he could perhaps use a nearby barbed wire fence as an antenna.

To build the radio, your hero would however require some knowledge as to which frequencies were used by the Germans. The shortwave frequencies used by the Germans were higher than the typical broadcast frequencies that a civilian would have been listenining to before the war so he can not pick them up using his "standard" coils. He would need far fewer winding on his coil.

The German radio operators would use a "Sprechtafel" or code sheet to encode their spoken messages. Station names, map references and tactical information would be unrecogniseable. Your hero would need the Germans to break their radio procedures to learn anything useful from any intercepts he would make.

So his critical success factors for picking up a Torn.Fu.b1 would be: large antenna, knowledge of the frequency used, nearby german transmitter, lapse of security procedures by the German operators.

The higher echelons would use lower frequency, higher power sets. The Fu11 set, using the 100 W.S. and the Torn.E.b would operate from 0.2 to 1.2 Mhz, much closer to the broadcast frequencies. A longer antenna would be required, but he could have picked this up with his "standard" design broadcast chrystal receiver. This set transmits with a power of 100 Watts, so I recon there is a reasonable chance of picking this up with a chrystal set if the transmitter is operating within a 10 km radius. Mind you, although they could transmit voice transmissions, they would be more likely be transmitting in Morse using Enigma encrypted messsages, so your hero would not have any chance of decyphering this. To pick up a voice message "in the clear" from these stations would be extremely unlikely.

So the critical success factors for picking up the higher echelon signals would be: very large antenna, German HQ within 10 km radius, major lapse in German security procedures.

regards,

Funksammler

Dear Helge, Funksammler & Val:


Merry Christmas & a Happy New Year.


One last question....I should have also asked if it is possible to 'pick up' German radio (voice) transmissions with a fox-hole radio set (that's a home made radio set similar to a crystal set).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxhole_radio

Again we have a little 'artistic licence' here.

The 'hero' in our story is an amateur radio guy, who builds one with materials he finds on a farm (eg. razor blade and a pencil). From what we're seen they were built by soldiers in both WWI and WWII.

Again, thank you for taking the time to share with your friends and answer our questions. We want our story to be believable and you are helping us to do just that.

db

[LA6NCA]

Mail From the Author

From my mail, LA6NCA:


Once again, thank you very much for all the information you, Funksamler & Val have provided. We are so pleased that you guys are so interested in WW2, it's very important to remember what happened and how it happened.

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Q: Do you know if the radios used by the German Navy (Schnellboot / E-boats fleets) in 1940, were similar to those used by the German Army?

Again, it's wonderful that you all are so generous with your time and expertise. Many thanks and have a happy new year.

db

[Funksammler]

The Schnellboote used a low power ship to ship VHF set (LO1UK35) and FUG V Long Wave/Short Wave set for long range communication (FuG V is actually the Luftwaffe name for this set, which originated from the Kriegsmarine). You can find more information here: http://www.prinzeugen.com/SchnellSignals.htm

The Lo1UK35 would be roughly comparable to the Torn.fu.d2, The Lo1UK35 works on a slightly higher frequency and would have a similar range. At sea, VHF signals could carry for quite a distance (line of sight range), but on land the signal could quickly be reduced by buildings, trees, hills etc. If your hero was right on the coast, he might pick up a VHF of a Schnellboot on the horizon if he had a good receiver. With a simple crystal set I think the signal from the 1 Watt Lo1UK35 would probably be too weak.

The FuG V set had two frequency ranges: 300-600 kHz longwave and 3-6 Mhz Shortwave. The Longwave transmissions would be roughly comparable with those of the on-land FU 11 set. The shortwave range is the same as that used by the Torn.Fu.b1. The FuG V set did have a lot more power than the Torn.Fu.b1 so it could probably be picked up at greater ranges.

The range of more powerfull Shortwave transmiiters vary greatly during day and night, especially at night the shortwave band of the FuG V could be used to communicate over considerable distances.

regards,

Funksammler