white police visor

[ITALIANWARFRONT]

does this stand a chance? no glow with black light but that's as far I go

thank you

Giorgio

[GAMS1]

This one looks good !
Nice quality and condition .
Nick

[Rick C]

Is that a naval chin strap? Also, is the visor pressed paper or the vulcanfiber stuff?

[W.Unland]

As a POLICE collector and not a hat authority, the visor looks wrong to me. WSP Schirmmütze were generally just repurposed navy caps however regulation specified a fiber brim. This brim looks post war to me. Many state WSP wore such caps in the post war years. Just my feeling, nothing more.

Regards,
W. Unland

[stonemint]

As a POLICE collector and not a hat authority, the visor looks wrong to me. WSP Schirmmütze were generally just repurposed navy caps however regulation specified a fiber brim. This brim looks post war to me. Many state WSP wore such caps in the post war years. Just my feeling, nothing more.

Regards,
W. Unland

Bill, as a hat collector, I have to disagree. I seen many photos of WSP Officers and NCOs, and they run the gamut from KM visors with WSP eagles to Police-type visors (with small crowns and vulkanfiber visors with the "lip".)
The same is true with period examples that I have examined.

The NCO models usually are of lower quality, and have the smaller crown and 1-piece flat eagles.

This hat has all the hallmarks of wartime TR production, to include the waffle-pattern removable top; the ersatz sweatband and 1-piece visor, as well as the removable mohair wool band.

Shown is a photo of my Sr NCO blue-top, with the smaller crown and standard police vulkanfiber visor:

[W.Unland]

i respect your opinion about the construction of this cap, and would never dare to question your observations about this or any cap for that matter. That said, however; have you ever seen a photo of a WSP NCO wearing a white top? WSP NCOs wore a green mottled summer tunic, and all of the photos I have seen of summer uniformed NCOs have a blue cap. Yes officer's were authorized a white top, but I am just not sure about NCOs. Also I have never seen plain cap buttons like these.

The WSP was made up of transferred naval junior officer's and some police NCOs. Most posts were officer's only. Yes there were NCOs in large harbors and ports, but the majority of WSP were officer grades. The number of personnel was extremely small, probably numbering in the hundreds, not thousands. Demand for uniforms would have been limited. I have only owned two WSP Schirmmütze over the years one a repurposed naval NCO, and the other a purpose made police style much as you show.

As with all police items almost anything goes, and certainly a cheaper cap like the one starting this discussion is a possibility, but I just can't imagine there was much demand for same once the war started. WSP was a dead end assignment with little turn over. Officer's caps are really high end pre-war quality with heavy bullion insignia the norm. If this cap was indeed wartime produced I can imagine it being intended for temporary warf or harbor police duties which utilized loaned navy lower ranks. As a civil WSP cap I still have my doubts.

I would be more inclined to think civilian marine, particularly with those buttons. But like I said who knows, with police nothing is impossible.

Just my 1.5 cents worth.

Regards,
William Unland

[stonemint]

i respect your opinion about the construction of this cap, and would never dare to question your observations about this or any cap for that matter. That said, however; have you ever seen a photo of a WSP NCO wearing a white top? WSP NCOs wore a green mottled summer tunic, and all of the photos I have seen of summer uniformed NCOs have a blue cap. Yes officer's were authorized a white top, but I am just not sure about NCOs. Also I have never seen plain cap buttons like these.

The WSP was made up of transferred naval junior officer's and some police NCOs. Most posts were officer's only. Yes there were NCOs in large harbors and ports, but the majority of WSP were officer grades. The number of personnel was extremely small, probably numbering in the hundreds, not thousands. Demand for uniforms would have been limited. I have only owned two WSP Schirmmütze over the years one a repurposed naval NCO, and the other a purpose made police style much as you show.

As with all police items almost anything goes, and certainly a cheaper cap like the one starting this discussion is a possibility, but I just can't imagine there was much demand for same once the war started. WSP was a dead end assignment with little turn over. Officer's caps are really high end pre-war quality with heavy bullion insignia the norm. If this cap was indeed wartime produced I can imagine it being intended for temporary warf or harbor police duties which utilized loaned navy lower ranks. As a civil WSP cap I still have my doubts.

Just my 1.5 cents worth.

Regards,
William Unland

Bill, here is a pic of a white-top NCO in wear.
The "button" is actually a split brad which holds the removable white-top in place (the pic is of the rear of the cap, not the side).