Heer Bergmütze

[BenVK]

Personally, I see absolutely no similarities between the 3 caps referred to in this thread.

Also, judging authenticity based on the asking price and whether it woulda, coulda, shoulda sold already is a massive mistake but that's just my opinion.

[90th Light]

Steve, the bias material is different than the liner cloth. The SS caps with this same material have not been universally declared reproduction, and it is interesting to see this very similar or identical bias tape in use.

s/f Robert

Robert raises a very good point about the prejudice here on WAF in regards to tan/ brown bias material.

For nearly 20 years now, I have been trying to find the basis of this being a negative/ red flag.

The prejudice is particularly strong here on WAF. Several times over many threads, I have probed for more information as to why it is instantly declared bad.

The same prejudice does not exist in Europe and some parts of North America.

I would have thought that the faker using this type of bias material would have been named by now. However, to date both on and off the record. no one has ever been able to tell me a name, where such reproductions were made or when ???

In fact quite the opposite, some dealers/ advanced collectors have quietly said off the record, they have no problem with the tan/ brown bias material.

I have no opinion/ experience of the Bergmutze cap which started this thread so I am not defending that. But it would be nice to finally get to the bottom of the tan/ brown bias material collector folk-lore prejudice,

Chris

[Steve Turner]

Hi Chris,

I understand you like to defend many of these questionable caps, by all means if you like them or anyone else likes them for that matter feel free to buy them.

I simply don't see why there is any point in arguing over an obvious (to me at least) bad cap. This is not a case of judging an item by consensus or price, it just boils down to my opinion being this is a bad cap for many reasons and how it stacks up to ones I know are original. Many other respected collectors would agree, but if you don't, go ahead and keep buying these caps. The fact these caps are always cheaper and not accepted by many is just something worth noting and not a make or break but just one more thing to consider if you want to buy one of these.

I can't see how anyone who owns original Heer M43's could see these as original but hey go ahead if it makes you happy it will keep the prices down for those of us who want the originals, just my opinion of course

Regards,
-Steve

[90th Light]

Hi Chris,

I understand you like to defend many of these questionable caps, by all means if you like them or anyone else likes them for that matter feel free to buy them.

-Steve

Hello Steve,

it is easy to simply dismiss me as a defender of questionable caps. That is an easy out.

However, nothing could be further from the truth. I will study every hat in detail and note every feature. I will then compare as many manufacturer footprints as possible. I am not arguing with anyone, I am a curious pragmatist. If something is wrong, why is it wrong ? If something is right, what makes it right ? What is the range of possible/ allowable variations ?

When it comes to M43 caps, not all makers have ever been documented and that leaves a broad range of possibilities.

One red flag on its own should never be the sole decider. It comes down to weighing up the list of negatives against the list of positives, and both against the documented makers known to date.

How many original M43 caps do you think they made during WW2 and of that total how many have collectors actually fully identified ?

I have raised the question here about why the tan/ brown bias material is a red flag. Lets see if it is answered ?

To date, it seems to be nothing more than a Chinese Whisper of collector folk-lore where one respected collector told another collector, who told another collector, who............. and it goes on to this day.

However, lets see if we are finally told here on WAF, why tan/ brown bias material is so wrong ???

Chris

p.s. I repeat, I have no interest in or hands-on experience of the cap that started this thread. My question regarding the bias material is generic rather than specific.

[billbert]

I can’t offer much but I will offer this....When there were many caps floating in magically from Poland I believe back in the late 80s...the gentleman whom I believe was the master player was quite annoyed with me that I had noticed all these new finds sported that same color bias material..The late Mike Beaver and I had done some brainstorming on the issue. I also viewed him eagerly buying from a collector buddy a strip of SS m43 traps...and in less than a year..here comes some with that style insignia..Billbert

I also bought a beautiful smoke M34 soutached for 85 bucks ...fresh from East Germany..Happy New Years ...Billbert

[jotuntroll]

Hi Chris
I support what you wrote here. The technical pursuit is a lot of work and many are more confortable group followers "expertise"mentality.


kind regrds
Ernst

Hello Steve,

it is easy to simply dismiss me as a defender of questionable caps. That is an easy out.

However, nothing could be further from the truth. I will study every hat in detail and note every feature. I will then compare as many manufacturer footprints as possible. I am not arguing with anyone, I am a curious pragmatist. If something is wrong, why is it wrong ? If something is right, what makes it right ? What is the range of possible/ allowable variations ?

When it comes to M43 caps, not all makers have ever been documented and that leaves a broad range of possibilities.

One red flag on its own should never be the sole decider. It comes down to weighing up the list of negatives against the list of positives, and both against the documented makers known to date.

How many original M43 caps do you think they made during WW2 and of that total how many have collectors actually fully identified ?

I have raised the question here about why the tan/ brown bias material is a red flag. Lets see if it is answered ?

To date, it seems to be nothing more than a Chinese Whisper of collector folk-lore where one respected collector told another collector, who told another collector, who............. and it goes on to this day.

However, lets see if we are finally told here on WAF, why tan/ brown bias material is so wrong ???

Chris

p.s. I repeat, I have no interest in or hands-on experience of the cap that started this thread. My question regarding the bias material is generic rather than specific.