Kriegsmarine Visor Opinions Please

[KeithRic]

Hello all,
Could I please get some opinions on the two white KM visors pictured? Only number (1) has a manufacturer's stamp "Nordd Mützen Fabrik M. Schlöffel Wilhelmshaven-Gegründet 1877." I put a note in the Kriegsmarine Uniforms and Equipment forum asking if this was a legitimate wartime brand, or whether it a name known to be used postwar or by fakers but no-one replied, so I'm putting it, with another cap in this forum. So, opinions please! Also, I'm really trying to learn about these, so if they're bad, I'd really appreciate tips on what gives them away.
To minimize confusion I'll put the pictures in two separate posts. The ones in this are all the "schoffell" cap.
Many thanks
Keith

[KeithRic]

Kriegsmarine Visor Opinions Cap 2

Below the pictures of the second (unmarked) KM visor.

[stonemint]

The first one is definitely Bundesmarine.


The second one has a chance, but many do not like a gap between the scallops and trim.

[GAMS1]

Number one is an early BM for sure .
The second one is a period KM one , no problem ...
I already observed BM without gap between the trim and the scallops ,
and KM with gap . Ok for me .
Nick

[Petrus]

The first one is definitely Bundesmarine.


The second one has a chance, but many do not like a gap between the scallops and trim.

I agree, dont like the gap....

[steiner99]

I agree with the others. First 100% Bundesmarine.

The second is a nice original WW2 period cap.

[KeithRic]

Hello gentlemen. Thanks so much for the thoughtful replies. Very much appreciated. Keith

[MarcoPennisi]

<>
I already observed BM without gap between the trim and the scallops ,
and KM with gap . <> Nick

Exactly. See, for a start, the picture in post #13 here http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/bundes...sors-313815-2/ for a Bundesmarine visor hat that has no gap between the ornamentation and the trimo of the visor.

[KeithRic]

Kriegsmarine Visor Opinions Cap 3

Hi.
Still trying to learn about the white top visor. The one pictured here was recently sold by a well-known dealer as original.
Can I get some opinions - and details on what is wrong or right.
I suspect it's converted Bundesmarine but don't know enough to say with confidence. As far as I can tell the diamond on the sweat shield is celluloid.
Many thanks
Keith

[KeithRic]

Kriegsmarine Visor Opinions Cap 3 - 2 more pics

Two more pictures.
Thank you.

[R.Beck]

Two more pictures.
Thank you.

Looks good so far IMO

My only concern is why the cello leaves and bullion cockade?? Replaced visor? Not unheard of.

Sooooo, in summary, body is good, lid is good, eagle is good. Just issue of different leaves and cockade which could be an issue.

[KeithRic]

Looks good so far IMO

My only concern is why the cello leaves and bullion cockade?? Replaced visor? Not unheard of.

Sooooo, in summary, body is good, lid is good, eagle is good. Just issue of different leaves and cockade which could be an issue.

Thanks for that - very interesting. I'd wondered about that myself. The inside of the cap is a bit grubby in comparison to the outside, but maybe the wearer just liked hair oil! The outside of the visor looks very fresh. Is it possible that some manufacturer's mixed cello and bullion fittings? More thoughts appreciated.

[R.Beck]

Is it possible that some manufacturer's mixed cello and bullion fittings? More thoughts appreciated.

Unlikely...More likely someone humped it up to admiral status. At this point all we can do is surmise what occurred since we don't have it in hand. That being said, I personally could never own that due to that uncertainty.

Also, what many KM collectors don't want to face is the prospect that their KM cap may have been a Reichmarine visor in its past life. Has anyone seriously ever seen a Reichsmarine visor for sale?? Point to ponder.

Me personally, if I did see a legit RM visor for sale, I'd be all over it like white on rice due to its rarity before some scumbag flips it over to KM.

[compressore]

I have an OKK visor where the leaves are bullion and the eagle and cocade is celon.
I have a white KM visor with the same configuration.
Also a NCO visor with bullion wreath and celon eagle.
So mixes for sure occurred

[KeithRic]

Sincere thanks to both R. Beck and Compressore for their considered replies. Anyone else have anything to add?