KM Ritter M40 converted into SS ?

[Tim O'Keefe]

Following Ben's great thread on Herr/KM M40's converted to the LW. Here is member Fred Bayer's cap. Another original KM Ritter dated '43 which has been converted to the SS. Would like to hear everyone's opinions on this interesting cap ? Thanks Fred

[Tim O'Keefe]

Interior and insignia application, notice the crudely removed KM eagle...Its been in his collection since 1975.

[Panzergrenadiere71]

I can't judge the cap but TK & ADLER are bad.

[SgtB]

I can't judge the cap but TK & ADLER are bad.

I disagree. The photos suck, and I won't say they were placed here by an SS-Mann during the war, but they look OK from the photos. The cap looks OK too.

[Tim O'Keefe]

I can't judge the cap but TK & ADLER are bad.

Thanks for your comment. Thats what we really need to know is the insignia original ? The cap itself is a one-look original. But what do i know about the ss

[Tim O'Keefe]

I disagree. The photos suck, and I won't say they were placed here by an SS-Mann during the war, but they look OK from the photos. The cap looks OK too.

Thanks SgtB.

Yes the photos are probably from when the cap was first found 40 years ago.
But there is enough there to make a determination i believe ? Of course when the insignia was added will always be open to debate....

[Panzergrenadiere71]

I disagree. The photos suck, and I won't say they were placed here by an SS-Mann during the war, but they look OK from the photos. The cap looks OK too.

You are right.
At a second look adler looks OK,still in doubt with the TK.
They should be this type.
It's always tough to judge the application of the insigna especially if the photos are not so good.
From the pics I don't like the way they have been sewn to the cap.

[BenVK]

The skull and eagle are both authentic IMO but I think the eagle may have been a white one originally.

[MarcoPennisi]

The cap looks real and the insignia have a chance but I too suspect that both the eagle and the skull were dyed. Both have an unnatural, beige hue as compared to the definitely yellow one you always observe.
I've my reservations about the utilisation by the WSS of a KM tropical cap emblazoned with WSS tropical cap insignia, that time when tropical insignia were available but tropcal caps were not , well ...I often observed some weird adulterations some 50 years ago, so no wonder the SS insignia have been there for quite a long time.

[Tim O'Keefe]

You are right.
At a second look adler looks OK,still in doubt with the TK.
They should be this type.
It's always tough to judge the application of the insigna especially if the photos are not so good.
From the pics I don't like the way they have been sewn to the cap.

Hi Emilio

Thanks for the second look. Have a couple more photos on the way. Agree non-factory insignia application such as this is difficult to evaluate if not "in hand." My first impression was that the insignia was post war added.

with kind regards
Tim

[Tim O'Keefe]

The skull and eagle are both authentic IMO but I think the eagle may have been a white one originally.

Hi Ben

Thanks so much for your thoughts. I can see the white underneath/around the beige shade and it is not uncommon to see "tan" white eagles/tk's these days. what about the application itself, post war also likely ?

cheers
Tim

[Tim O'Keefe]

The cap looks real and the insignia have a chance but I too suspect that both the eagle and the skull were dyed. Both have an unnatural, beige hue as compared to the definitely yellow one you always observe.
I've my reservations about the utilisation by the WSS of a KM tropical cap emblazoned with WSS tropical cap insignia, that time when tropical insignia were available but tropcal caps were not , well ...I often observed some weird adulterations some 50 years ago, so no wonder the SS insignia have been there for quite a long time.

HI Marco

Great to hear from you. Think that You and Ben are correct that the the insignia was originally white. Also a good point that 50 years ago was the cool time for souped-up exotic tunics & caps, it was the 60's "man." & that just because the insignia has not been touched for 45 years does not mean it wasn't messed with 50 years ago...

Another point is that most SS M40's were worn during the war without insignia if i'm not mistaken ?

Here are a few more photos. Again all comments welcome ?

thanks
t

[RGD51]

Nice to see this neat cap here, have handled it many times. Always regarded the insig as white, albeit rather age toned, but not the goldish trop variety. Thanks to Fred and Tim for posting it.

Robt.

[SgtB]

Thanks SgtB.

Yes the photos are probably from when the cap was first found 40 years ago.
But there is enough there to make a determination i believe ? Of course when the insignia was added will always be open to debate....

I don't think so. Those photos are very recent.
But the cap is what it is at this stage of the game - the sum of it's parts, and nothing more.

[Tim O'Keefe]

I don't think so. Those photos are very recent.
But the cap is what it is at this stage of the game - the sum of it's parts, and nothing more.

Hey Sgt

Was joking of course, guess i need to include more

Yes it is a very nice KM cap