Name Markings in Caps: ink?

[John A.]

Hi, folks,

I am returning to the hobby after an absence of over 30 years. The difference in the quality, quantity and availability of good information between then and now is astounding!

This may be elementary, but please bear with me.
My research suggests ball-point pens were a post-WW2 phenomenon. However,
I have seen hats marked with ostensibly original owner's names in what APPEARS
to be ball-point pen.

My question is, what type inks should be considered correct for original period owner's name markings, and are there any red flags you can share?

Any photos of correct, owner-inscribed names and/or postwar additions would
be very helpful. It's hard for me to imagine using a fountain pen to mark a cap, but perhaps that's what they used... If so, would the fountain pen ink of the day stand up to sweat/moisture?

Thanks very much, and all help is most appreciated!

Sincerely,
John

[John A.]

Anyone?

Any thoughts at all?

[RGD51]

I believe the Germans had ballpoints in the 40’s. I think a google will confirm the developement of that pen.

Robt.

[John A.]

Thanks, Robert!

Hi, Robert,

Many thanks -- I had searched on them and gotten information about when
they were invented/became popular in America -- post war -- but will do a
doublecheck on the Kugelschreiber in Germany!! Thanks for the help!
John

[Waffenreich]

John,

Not a ballpoint, but an example of what Gefreiter Hugo Benger used in his cap.

The cap is a Pekuro and is Gepruft to 2/Inf Rgt 60. Hugo Benger was KIA at Stonne, France on 17 May 1940. He was born 102 years ago today (23 Jun 1916).

vr

Bob

[John A.]

Waffenreich -- THANKS!

Hi, Waffenreich,

Thanks very much for the information and photo! It is great that you know the history of the original soldier who owned it! I'm sorry to hear he was KIA, especially at such a young age. However, it is good that you are preserving his memory!

The caps I am speaking of are Schiffchen and Feldmuetze -- I've not taken much interest in dress uniforms, so haven't seen/examined many dress caps. Nice that
his name survived so well after all these years! That appears to be fountain pen
ink on a slip of paper, protected by the waterproof cover of the label.

I appreciate your help, and thanks for the great pics!

All the best to you,
John

[Waffenreich]

You're welcome John and sorry, I didn't realize you were only looking for names in field caps.

Here's one in a Waffen-SS Schiffchen I have. It has the SS soldier's name "Wellershaus" and the US vet's name "C V Brown" written in it. I'm not sure what Wellershaus used, but it to looks like it may have been a fountain pen also.

Regards!

Bob

[John A.]

WOW!! Thanks, Bob!



Hi, Bob,
Thanks very much for posting the SS Schiffchen -- no need to apologize for posting ANY good German pieces -- they're all interesting and educational!!

That is an interesting marking for Wellershaus's name. The cap looks beautiful -- no evidence of wear or grime that I can see. Out of curiosity, have you seen other caps marked with a similar thin instrument, and if so, how have the markings held up to wear?

Anyone's thoughts, experiences or comments are most welcome!
What started me on this quest was seeing 2 caps that had the names marked
in what appeared to be obvious Bic pen blue... And not in a particularly Germanic hand.

Thanks very much -- gorgeous cap, and I sure appreciate your sharing!
John

[Waffenreich]

You're welcome again John

Although you sometimes find what looks like blue ballpoint ink on the oilcloth tags used by tailors to write a garment owner's name, I would be very suspicious of any field cap that looks like it has ballpoint pen writing in it.

Your best bet when encountering items like that is to post good detailed straight-on and oblique angle views of the writing.

Good luck mate and a subject definitely worthy of further research.

Best regards!

Bob

[Waffenreich]

John,

Although this is not in a hat it shows what appears to be ink from a ball point pen in a June '43 dated Luftwaffe tunic. Picture is courtesy of Sebastien T in his Thread: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...47#post8201847

[John A.]

Sehr Schön!

Hi, Bob,

Outstanding!! I appreciate your help! (For a bit, I was beginning to think this
was too elementary a subject for folks to consider!) My thinking is that it may
help spot some fakes. The markings I have seen were very crude compared to these you have shown.

I am by no means a student of handwriting! However, if you look carefully at
the tag in the Luftwaffe uniform, you will see that the ink gets wider in certain
parts of the letters, and very thin in others. To me, that suggests possibly the
use of a fountain pen?

Now you've got me started -- have gone to office supply co and gotten a couple of fountain pens/ink, and will find some suitable fabric to do a test or two on.

One thing I do know from using patched round-balls in muzzle-loading rifles -- with modern fabric (usually cotton pillow ticking), you have to wash the fabric at least 2-3 times before using it, if you want it to absorb the patch lubricant, due to the "sizing" treatment applied to the fabric. There is a dramatic difference if you don't.

So, not being a cloth expert either, I need to find out what the heck "sizing" is,
and whether the Germans would have used it on the fabric used to line field tunics and hats? I'm sure the tailors who made these items accounted for the absorbent properties of the tags they were using, which they knew would be marked in ink -- or chose their pens based on what would work on their tags.

Probably the best test material would be a scrap of original lining material in very good to excellent condition. However, I've not accumulated any damaged or excess cloth to get samples from.

The last thing I can think of is to see if there was a material difference in the fountain pen ink back then, vs. today. I will do some research on that and see what I can learn.

I have my father's original letters home from WW2 (U.S.), and while I haven't looked at them in years, I seem to recall they were in fountain pen. I will check
and see. Also, Wehrpass entries and Feldpost letters are a relatively accessible source of data. One thing I seem to recall is that certain personnel (company or local commanders?) very often used a purple pencil (I believe) for their signatures
in Wehrpasses.

Thanks again, and I appreciate your help and consideration! I'll do some research and report back anything of interest that I learn.

All the best,
John