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**NZMark** · 01-22-2018, 11:26 PM

Gentleman - I suspect the cap has been washed at some point, ruining the threads running about it's base. The grease and sweat that held these threads has been destroyed by the washing process and at some point the cap has had the liner re-tacked in place. I have several heavily sweat/greased m40's which would almost dis-integrate if even submerged in water.
I also noted the thread retaining the soutache - and this I believe has also been re-tacked. If professionally done, the lower base threads would have been machine sewn back so as not to arouse suspicion, unlike the poor hand tacking this liner has. Possibly collector doctored, maybe field cleaned then re-sewn once the horror of what was done wore off.
I'd like to handle it so as to avoid further speculation from photos.
And yes, most certainly overpriced for the most common manufacturer of m40 caps.
Mark
NZ

**90th Light** · 01-23-2018, 12:58 AM

It is interesting that one sees leather sweatbands period added to M40 tropical Carl Halfar caps.

I wonder if the thread holding the lining was a weak point for Carl Halfers when heavily used caps were washed during WW2 ? Thus adding a sweat band an easy solution to fixing the problem.

May be I am barking up the wrong tree and it was simple wear and tear that affected caps by more than one maker. Cloth wear out over time with hard use. Has anyone got a 1940 or even 1941 cap by another maker with a leather sweatband ? Even another maker with a period re-sewn liner edge ? Could be an interesting study in its own right, "Battle-pig-Afrika-cap"characteristic.

However, I can think of more than one example of faded early Carl Halfar tropical M40 caps where the lower band of stitching holding the liner has disintergrated,

Chris

**Mark Gibson** · 01-23-2018, 01:03 AM

Just for interests sake, here is the interior of a cap where the thread around the forehead area deteriorated (Robert Lubstein). A different maker but the same affect. Only the forehead area was affected on this one. Notice the remaining intact factory thread around the back and sides. This cap had untouched eagle and cockade but the soutache had been removed with remnants still visible between the visor and body.
Some caps have small areas with deterioration, others have large areas. Depends on the amount of grime build up and how it affected the thread.
I do agree with Mark that washing these area's of heavily built up sweat and grime often affects the threads causing opening of the interiors.

I'm still not sold on that soutache though. It doesn't look the same as the many soutaches that I've seen on early Carl Halfar caps. It isn't just the lack of wear, it's also the colour that doesn't seem quite right. Perhaps it is the light and perhaps I'm being too cautious.

Mark

Attached Files

**90th Light** · 01-23-2018, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by Tim O'Keefe View Post

Again agree+1

1940/41 dated caps DAK = Libya/Egypt $$$
1942 dated caps still with soutache 5th Pz Army = Maybe Egypt more likely Tunisia $$
1943 dated caps no soutache The Sud Front $

I too think MarkG's point on the soutauche could be correct with not much wear to the soutache itself when compared to the cap. But why would you open up the whole cap to just add a soutache ?

Tim, a bit tough on the second model tropical M40 cap.

However, I would agree with this;

1940/41 dated caps DAK = Libya/Egypt/Tunisia $$$

1942 dated caps still with soutache 5th Pz Army = Maybe end of Libya, more likely Egypt (164 Light Division) definitely Tunisia $$

1943 dated caps no soutache more likely Tunisia. definitely Sud Front $

Chris

**Mark Gibson** · 01-23-2018, 01:23 AM

Originally posted by 90th Light View Post

Not an easy soutache to find at all if someone want to restore one back onto a cap of that year.

Chris

Chris,

It took me around a minute to find green soutache for sale on the internet. This was advertised as apple green, vintage cotton soutache, 3mm wide in a 5m length. Sold out of course.
It looks a bit bright and shiney to me but you get the picture.

I'll add some photos of my PzGren soutached Halfar later. I'm supposed to be cooking dinner right now.

Mark

Attached Files

**msteve21** · 01-23-2018, 01:36 AM

cap

The stitching application of the soutache appears to be hand applied, notice the difference in application of thread length, you expect to see consistency if done by a sewing machine

Last year a seller on stand was offering a wide range of period soutache, most colours were available from memory

Mark S

Attached Files

716352128A.jpg (47.4 KB, 144 views)

**NZMark** · 01-23-2018, 01:41 AM

The soutache certainly has a strong colour, but the hand sewing only goes up halfway on the left side from what I can see?
Mark
NZ

**Mark Gibson** · 01-23-2018, 02:33 AM

Here is mine for comparison.

Mark

Attached Files

Halfar PzGren Soutache.jpg (176.5 KB, 146 views)

**Mike39** · 01-23-2018, 03:41 AM

I see the auction has now been pulled, as expected.

The auction description on TM is almost a cut and paste off The Virtual Grenadier web site description of the panzer cap he is selling, including the price.

Am I starting to see some kind of collaboration between the seller and a local antique dealer starting to emerge ? I’m sure local collectors will know what I’m talking about.

**90th Light** · 01-23-2018, 04:20 AM

Originally posted by Mark Gibson View Post

Here is mine for comparison.

Mark

And here is mine also for comparison in the top image, beside a battle worn tropical sidecap to get the contrast. Note how the Carl Halfar soutache has slightly more of an apple hue to it than than the lime hue of the side-cap soutache.

Thread-starter cap in question shown in bottom image,

Chris

p.s. I think what we are interpreting as hand stitching of the soutache on the thread-starter is simply where the sewing machine has run off the center of the soutache for a small bit on the viewers right hand side.

Attached Files

**Mark Gibson** · 01-23-2018, 04:28 AM

Good comparison Chris. It looks like I've definitely been too cautious on this one as it looks the same as your soutache. Thanks for showing the comparison.

Regards,

Mark

**90th Light** · 01-23-2018, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by Mark Gibson View Post

Good comparison Chris. It looks like I've definitely been too cautious on this one as it looks the same as your soutache. Thanks for showing the comparison.

Regards,

Mark

Thanks Mark,

I appreciate your confirmation. That was how it looked to my eye. Of course we are both working off images which is always a lot harder than holding the item. Thus your caution is not misplaced.

I feel the soutache is original to the cap and the totally correct hue for that maker. However, as OSS has pointed out, the broken stitching around the circumference is an issue which does impact on the value of what would otherwise an excellent, top shelf example,

Chris

**msteve21** · 01-23-2018, 05:29 AM

M40 dak

I don't think one can be to cautious about these caps, especially when cap prices are almost matching that of a new car. Thanks for the comparison Chris, agree it may be the run off from the sewing machine.

If the price drops on Virtual Grenadier cap, it's a good buy with none of the issues associated with this cap

Mark S

**90th Light** · 01-23-2018, 05:43 AM

Originally posted by msteve21 View Post

I don't think one can be to cautious about these caps, especially when cap prices are almost matching that of a new car. Thanks for the comparison Chris, agree it may be the run off from the sewing machine.

If the price drops on Virtual Grenadier cap, it's a good buy with none of the issues associated with this cap

Mark S

Sadly in New Zealand Mark,

all you would get for NZ$19,000 is a good second hand Toyota Corolla

That is how life is on your side of the "the ditch", cheaper cars and cheaper petrol to put in them.

Still I take your point, we are talking the price of a reasonable car,

Chris

**msteve21** · 01-23-2018, 05:52 AM

Dak

Chris, I do digress from the topic at hand, noticed last week in Auckland that petrol is almost double the price here in Oz, personally I rather have more DAK caps and a cheaper car

Mark S

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