Tropical M40 "Goldgelb" Recon yellow soutache

[OSS]

Perhaps this will make for a better contrast:

[Lodsworth]

Tim's cap

Chris is very polite but the cap posted by Tim is an obvious fake and adds nothing to this thread.
A "Clemens Wagner", probably from the same stable as Mike Davis' acknowledged reproduction "Gebr. Statter, Pfungstatt" (look at the brushed embroidered cockade and the cut rather than riveted eyelet petals), everyone except Tim agreed it was a fake a long time ago.
Very useful pictures of the real cap though, thankyou.
Cheers
Mike

[Tim O'Keefe]

Chris is very polite but the cap posted by Tim is an obvious fake and adds nothing to this thread.
A "Clemens Wagner", probably from the same stable as Mike Davis' acknowledged reproduction "Gebr. Statter, Pfungstatt" (look at the brushed embroidered cockade and the cut rather than riveted eyelet petals), everyone except Tim agreed it was a fake a long time ago.
Very useful pictures of the real cap though, thankyou.
Cheers
Mike

Hi Mike

Well that cap has been in only three very experienced DAK collectors hands since the early 70's including one esteemed author. Am not the only one that likes it as this thread below proves. But your right about one thing Mike. I should not have posted it here, as its's a distraction from this very interesting discussion. Apologies.

for those that wish to learn more about these caps see this thread...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=467580

cheers
Tim

[Tim O'Keefe]

Though an aside, what color soutache do you suppose the soldiers (with the traditions devices) in your supporting photographs are wearing? It is certainly too dark for Geldgelb, what other branch would be entitled to wear the "Schwedter Adler"?

Agree, Piping does not look like gold in that photo but either rosa or more likely copper ? Both DAK Recon Bn's could where the Adler with their history. AA3 mostly wore pink at the start of the campaign ? & the AA33 mosty copper ? (I use the word "mostly" as i am not convinced it was "exclusively" meaning some gold piped EM/NCO's may have been there too.) Either could wear gold just a question of when and where ?? As some of the Officers's did at the start using their European goldgelb piped insignia on their tropical tunics.

Your post #16 puts the tropical M40 threadstarter in better perspective, less convincing for sure.

[90th Light]

Though an aside, what color soutache do you suppose the soldiers (with the traditions devices) in your supporting photographs are wearing? It is certainly too dark for Geldgelb, what other branch would be entitled to wear the "Schwedter Adler"?

Good question, I have wondered also what the various colours of soutache being worn actually are. This is the photo those close ups were taken from. I note that there are also shell cases and artillery rounds. May be that is a clue as to who they were ???

Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

Good question, I have wondered also what the various colours of soutache being worn actually are. This is the photo those close ups were taken from. I note that there are also shell cases and artillery rounds. May be that is a clue as to who they were ???

Chris

AA3, 3rd Schwere Co, 75mmIG platoon, one of the gun crews.

[90th Light]

I used this photograph of two continental side caps in the other thread to illustrate that some signals soutaches had a slightly goldish hue, unlike the stack of identical pale yellow piped shoulder straps that was used to contrast the supposed "Goldgelb" example.

I understand what you are saying and part of the challenge is to photograph it with my camera. When it comes to taking pictures, my attempts are amateur and understanding of lighting not the best.

However, every collector out here who has handled it and made the comparison with other caps/ boards, has agreed the it is a faded Recon yellow. You can see this from what NZ Mark stated in post number 6. Plus we were lucky enough to find some beyond doubt evidence.

I will see if I can add clearer comparative images when I get a chance to do so,

Chris

[90th Light]

AA3, 3rd Schwere Co, 75mmIG platoon, one of the gun crews.

Many thanks Tim,

that makes sense given what the artillery rounds are,

Chris

[Tim O'Keefe]

Yes based on the rounds, & the soldbuch entry etc. Wouldn't that imply that the color piping is rosa ?
Thats a great photo all wearing faded M40's with maybe the driver on the right in his sidecap.

[90th Light]

Yes based on the rounds, & the soldbuch entry etc. Wouldn't that imply that the color piping is rosa ?

Rosa or copper-brown seem the most likely possibilities. I would value a clearer image of the side-cap soutache,

Chris

[NCO]

Thanks Chris ,
Great investigation into this cap.
cheers
NCO

[NZMark]

I can confirm the colour of the soutache in the non-fade areas is goldgelb. We had a great evening going over this one.
Regards,
Mark
NZ

[OSS]

I don't mean to cast doubt on a cap that has been examined by respected collectors who have determined it to be Goldgelb, a rare Aufklarungs color used (briefly?) in N. Afrika. A hands-on evaluation trumps armchair opinions every time. I simply wanted to mention that one occasionally finds straps and field caps, even mint unfaded examples, that are ambiguous.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Rosa or copper-brown seem the most likely possibilities. I would value a clearer image of the side-cap soutache,

Chris

Hi Chris

Would expect the Driver's sidecap soutache to be the same as the other gun crewman M40's "if" he is the driver of the gun. So rosa or copperbrown whatever, should match the other crewman. Would not be blue transport if that is what your'e thinking ?

cheers
Tim

[NZMark]

I don't mean to cast doubt on a cap that has been examined by respected collectors who have determined it to be Goldgelb, a rare Aufklarungs color used (briefly?) in N. Afrika. A hands-on evaluation trumps armchair opinions every time. I simply wanted to mention that one occasionally finds straps and field caps, even mint unfaded examples, that are ambiguous.

I completely agree! If only viewed on a monitor I'd be sceptical myself
Mark
NZ