Cockade is a repo, the soutchade more than likely postwar added
Mark S
Mark S
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Hello,
While not an expert, I don't see anything wrong with this hat. If the soutauche is post war they did a great job of machine sewing it down. The cocade looks good to me.
FredComment
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I find it odd that the sweatband stitchline passes through the soutache yet under the cockade.Comment
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The cockade looks original to me, and I'm OK with it being hand-stitched over the top of the machine-sewing.Originally posted by msteve21 View Post
s/f RobertComment
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The cockade looks original to me, and I'm OK with it being hand-stitched over the top of the machine-sewing. s/f Robert
Have a look at the original examples of the three wartime issued patterns of tropical cockades posted here
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ckade&page=114
and here on the previous page..115
When you compare it you see the background weave on this cap appears incorrect for a tropical cockade and its placement over the stitching is certainly a first, unless it was post war replaced
Mark SComment
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This is an original cap, in all respects, no question
I have personally handled a tropical billed M40 cap by this maker that was found in the South Island of New Zealand in 1980, picked up by a Kiwi soldier at El Alamein in November 1942. The cap shown to me, corresponds exactly in construction to this cap. The maker is "Kurtze & Storkmann" who had their premises in Berlin.
The cap that turned up in New Zealand had a black soutache. However importantly for this discussion, the NZ found cap also had a sweatband and its cockade had been hand stitched in place on top of the line of stitching holding the sweatband, that went across top of the soutache braid. The soutache was machine-stitched in place before the cockade was hand stitched.
The numbers are not visible in the interior photos of the lining of the cap that started this thread but the cap that turned up here in NZ, had " 4 42" (the month and date of manufacture) stamped below the size numbers.
I agree that this is a very rare soutache color for early DAK caps, but I think not the rarest, as being claimed on this thread. The rarest colors in my estimation
would be Orange-red, followed by carmine with gold yellow coming in a close third followed by white.
In my opinion this cap would be a highly desirable addition to any DAK collection,
ChrisLast edited by 90th Light; 07-23-2017, 04:13 AM.Comment
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Hand-stitched cockades on caps that are otherwise machine-sewn are not uncommon. Here is one I used to own that has a soustache (removed) and an originally hand attached cockade.
s/f RobertComment
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GREAT THREAD...GREATER FIND...THE MYTHICAL WHITE WHALE OF DAK SOUTACHE..Billbert
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I agree with those who believe the cap to be 100% original, and a rare soutache for certain.
Comment
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Thanks to everybody for the help and for identifying the maker.
William KramerPlease visit my site: https://wehrmacht-militaria.com/Comment
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Here are two caps with apparently similar (?early 3rd pattern) cockades — many of you will recognize them. A Halfar and a Lubstein, both dated 1941.
I agree with Mark S about the sequence of attachment, which is definitely aberrant, and when you think about it, not very logical either. And has anyone seen the particular twill used for William's cap in an authentic cap? Despite the New Zealand comparison, and — of course — the cap's authentic looking eyelets, I'm not completely convinced by it yet. I'd like to hear more.
MikeComment
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There's nothing wrong with this cap, Chris(90thLight) sums it up nicely.
The cockade is genuine & correct for the period of construction of cap mid '42,
as is the twill of the cloth it's just of poorer quality of earlier caps.
Of course the cockade could of been added post war, but on close inspection
of photos appears to be sewn with the same thread as used in rest of cap, a
'hands on' would confirm it either way.
SamComment
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I shall answer my own question. Yes, I have seen apparently authentic caps made from something close to this particular twill (which to my eye differs from the predominant twills — early and late — seen in caps posted on this forum): early model Alfred Valet caps. It would be useful if someone could put up a sharp photo of a similar view to one of Williams, but in the meantime I'll put up a couple of photos posted elsewhere, one by Mark Gibson and one by Barry 1954. (Who I thank for posting them in the first place).
MikeComment
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