Peculiar Black GJ Bergmütze on Ebay

[andrewbritt]

Can I get some thoughts on this? Very intriguing theater made bullion patch.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/152547774615...84.m1555.l2649

[paul.j]

cap

Why, are you selling this rubbish?

[stonemint]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKcAYMb5uk4

[billbert]

Straight from the WW2 limited arsenal of St Louis or Collectors Armory of VA ....IF memory serves...for around 12 Bucks..replete with SS rune Buttons...Billbert

[andrewbritt]

I'm gathering this particular specimen not very popular.

I'm happy to accept that it's a repro, but I do have a few questions if you'll be so gracious as to entertain. Have you ever seen a reproduction with a trashed bullion patch like this? Or silk lining for that matter? My initial instinct was to dismiss it, but the more I look at it the more question arise.

I know the runes buttons have been faked are surrounded by skepticism, but I was under the impression that they have some legitimacy as original Allegemeine SS hardware.

Admittedly, I'm a newb, and have come here to glean from those much more knowledgeable. Hope I'm not too much of a neusance, but would really appreciate some answers/clarification.

All the very best,

Andrew

[Tim O'Keefe]

Would start by cancelling the deceptive ebay "auction".


From the seller "not been authenticated by a certified WWII appraiser" for $6000us

Where do i go to find one of these certified appraisers ? How does one get certified ??

[OSS]

SS items have been faked more than any other Third Reich collectibles; some reproductions are so good that they can only be recognized by highly experienced collectors and dealers. This cap is not one of those items; it is so obviously fake that even the uninitiated should be able to see that it is nothing like any original. I would recommend that until you have studied this subject for many years and are comfortable with your knowledge that you adopt the advice an old gun dealer once told me "If it's SS, it's fake".

[billbert]

At 5999 buying price I'm less hopeful ....Billbert

[andrewbritt]

Would start by cancelling the deceptive ebay "auction".


From the seller "not been authenticated by a certified WWII appraiser" for $6000us

Where do i go to find one of these certified appraisers ? How does one get certified ??

A little confused as to how stating that the cap "has not been authenticated" is deceptive. The price merely reflects speculative value for an authentic WWII era black SS bergmütze w/ theater made patch. I described the item as accurately as possible, and am assuming that anyone who would pull the trigger on it at that price would be knowledgeable of/certain as to what they were getting into. If not authentic, it simply won't garner any interest and we can all go on as usual.

I am admittedly not an expert, nor even a WWII collector. I happened upon a curious artifact and after spending days in research (scratching the surface, I know) believed I might have uncovered a treasure.

Not exactly sure where all the snark is coming from, nor why I can't even get one honest shake at an answer to either of my questions. I'm a reasonable person and here to learn. Frankly, irrespective of the hat itself, the patch has me scratching my head. I'll ask again, have any of you seen a crude bullion patch faked? Also, haven't there been instances where SS rune buttons are verified as authentic?

I know the cap has some unusual/unfamiliar characteristics, and therefore I can understand the skepticism. I was just hoping I get some more substantive dialogue than "it's crap", "you're an idiot", and "go away".

[andrewbritt]

SS items have been faked more than any other Third Reich collectibles; some reproductions are so good that they can only be recognized by highly experienced collectors and dealers. This cap is not one of those items; it is so obviously fake that even the uninitiated should be able to see that it is nothing like any original. I would recommend that until you have studied this subject for many years and are comfortable with your knowledge that you adopt the advice an old gun dealer once told me "If it's SS, it's fake".

I do appreciate your comments. Informative with a good deal of constructive criticism. With all due respect, as member of the "uninitiated" I do happen to see many similarities to photos of the original. I can only assume the differences are in the subtleties. Would really appreciate it if someone more knowledgeable than I would have the courtesy to point them out for me.

"If it's SS, it's fake." I don't doubt it's a good rule, but as you've implied...not hard and fast.

[andrewbritt]

And FYI, I did removed the listing. Now who wants the cap for $12? Billbert?

[andrewbritt]

Just one more thought, and I promise I'll leave you all alone.

Here are a set of SS rune buttons that sold for $750 on what I believed to be a reputable site: http://www.emedals.com/europe/german...l-tunic-g10966

or these (which happen to be identical to mine): http://www.nsdapuniforms.com/ss-buttons

Why so quick to dismiss them as fake? I know their original use was not on a cap, but clearly what I have in my possession is a frankenstein of sorts (see patch). It's honestly hard to accept based on the patina and construction that my cap is a repro from the '70s.

[SgtB]

Your cap, and the buttons and badges on it, are one-looker junk. Please accept this as fact and move on.

[billbert]

Once again WITH FEELING...the SS Buttons where sold on these REPRO caps when they were made and sold in the 60-70s..To answer your Insignia question..I have seen it loose for sale before...all of the cap is FAKE..Rub the ruby red slippers together as much as you wish..I do applaud your 5999 adjustments down to 50 bucks on your auction though...but junk is junk...Billbert

[pauke]

1936

As one who remembers WW 2 Ltd. catalogs in the 1960's this cap is hopelessly ridiculous looking as well as a seriously goofy Afrikakorps cap with imagined insignia they also offered. If you look at photos of the 1936 Winter Olympics you will find images of black SS ski caps actually worn. Other than the color black there is no comparison with originals and what is offered here.