WH tropical cockade for review

[Fsoq]

Hello,
Got it for a while on ebay but I cannot figure out if it's a good one or not. What's your opinion please ? Thanks

[msteve21]

Good

unissued 2nd pattern tropical cockade
Mark S

[GAMS1]

A good one,no problem .
It has been sewn on a band , some traces of sewing are still visible ?
More came out like this some years ago .
Nick

[Fsoq]

Thank you Mark and Nick ! Appreciated

[90th Light]

unissued 2nd pattern tropical cockade
Mark S

Certainly original but a 3rd pattern not 2nd,

Chris

[RGD51]

These were used earlier than once previously thought as they can occasionally be found on caps with soutache....so mid period at the transition. Pretty sure someone can turn one up from a past thread.

Robt.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Robert makes an excellent point that these "3rd pattern" tropical cockades are seen on some M40's with soutache with the sweatband. Though usually found on later model M40's without soutache. Nice original

[RGD51]

I've always considered the coppery bevo cockades to be 2nd pattern, I've never heard of 3rd pattern. In my mind the earliest are machine 'embroidered' on fine, tan, cotton twill and then these later....the coppery bevo weave rayon. There may be subtle color variations between olive and copper brown as evidenced by the cockade shown in this thread which looks a tad olive to me.

Robt.

[90th Light]

The "first pattern" WH tropical cockades are "Bevo" weave using the early high quality, thick cotton thread which produces more of a pushed out 3D effect. The background cloth has a thick diagonal weave woven in before the cockade is added on top (4 sides folded to sew on cap).

The "second pattern" WH trop. cockades are also Bevo weave but the thread quality and quantity are starting to decrease. Rayon-Cotton blends or 100% rayon thread is now being increasingly used to replace the cotton in short supply. The background cloth may or may not have the diagonal weave pre-woven before the cockade is added on top (usually 2 sides folded to sew on cap but some 4 folded sided exist).

The "third pattern" WH trop. is Bevo weave using less thread which creates a strong checkered effect to the weave. Artificial silk is used when rayon is not available or as a permanent economical substitute. The background cloth is the pattern of the base cloth used and no longer has the strong diagonal weave embroidered into it at all. Base cloth and thread used on 3rd pattern can often be shiny and synthetic looking (2 sides folded to sew on cap).

Example of a 1st pattern, post number 7; http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...attern+cockade

Examples of 3rd pattern see post numbers 1, 2 of this thread. The 2nd pattern is shown in post numbers 3,4,5;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...cockade&page=2

Example of another 3rd pattern is shown in this thread;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...opical+cockade

Chris

[RGD51]

Will just have to disagree about the first pattern. In my opinion it's an embroidered, not woven, style rendered in what is called a 'fill stitch' on top of tan twill...clearly depicted in your link. I can see however, how the 3rd pattern is recognized as, after this embroidered style, there is indeed a "tan" bevo cotton style which is followed, a bit later, by the more synthetic rayon looking coppery bevo so, yes, 3 styles. All of these styles can be seen in the many trop threads on this forum....I think (?)

Robt.

[90th Light]

Will just have to disagree about the first pattern. In my opinion it's an embroidered, not woven, style rendered in what is called a 'fill stitch' on top of tan twill...clearly depicted in your link. I can see however, how the 3rd pattern is recognized as, after this embroidered style, there is indeed a "tan" bevo cotton style which is followed, a bit later, by the more synthetic rayon looking coppery bevo so, yes, 3 styles. All of these styles can be seen in the many trop threads on this forum....I think (?)

Robt.

Hello Robert,

the "first pattern" tropical cockade was woven by the "Bevo" process. The quality thread contained a lot of cotton and was thick as a result. This might produce an embroidered look on the example in the link I posted but it is definitely made via the "Bevo" type machine. Same as the first model tropical breast eagle and cap eagle.

I have not seen an embroidered tropical cap cockade that was widely accepted as original. There have been threads on such cockades but the overall feeling is that they are a post-war imitation of the war-time Bevo types especially the first model.

However, I am interested in your thoughts and experience in the matter. I know you have handled a lot in your time,

Chris

p.s. post number 14, 55, 56 of this thread show examples of controversial embroidered tropical cockades;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ockade&page=10