SS visor - total fake or conversion?

[Oceansider]

I have been evaluating a collection of German militaria put together 40-60 years ago by a man whose main hobby was collecting Lugers and Mausers (and a fair amount of old Colts and Winchesters). He bought the best weapons he could, as well as some nice original German field gear, but it appears his SS purchases were not real (no surprise there, huh?".

Two high-level collectors I trust pronounced this as not real, but I wondered whether this was made from scratch as a fake or is it some sort of other German visor cap converted to look like an SS piece?

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[Oceansider]

Now this one to me clearly looks "modern," and made from scratch as a fake:

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[Oceansider]

so, my basic question is: are these total fakes or is there a part of the hats that's for real?

[stonemint]

The first one is an Alteste.
The second is a crude Franky using BRD parts.

[BenVK]

The first one is an Alteste.

...with an original sweatband transplanted into it.

[Oceansider]

Thanks - learned some new terms here: BRD and Franky

[Oceansider]

Knowing these hats (and an "SS" tunic) are fakes has helped the collector's son solve a mystery. He knew that his dad had gotten rid of much of his non-weapons militaria many years ago and was surpised to see these SS items still there when he began to move his late father's things. The things the father sold included an SS parade uniform and some other expensive items. The son thinks his father never bothered to sell these hats - and the tunic - because he knew they were not worth much. There are two SS daggers and I'll haul those to Pomona this weekend to learn what others eyes see. It'd be nice for the son if those werereal.

Here's the coat:

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[mrec27777]

I"M WITH YOU ON THIS ONE ..let's see if legit ....EC

[Paris Gun]

The lack of "key-hole" button holes on the SS tunic should be enough to safely assume that it too is bogus, just like the visors.

That said, I absolutely LOVE "Alteste" Reproduction visors, so feel free to shoot me a 'PM' if y'all are looking for a buyer. Thanks"

[Ian Hulley]

The tunic is fake, as is the 'Deutschland' cufftitle.

Ian