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Billy Kramer

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    #1

    1st Pattern Army Pith Helmet Opinions

    Hello,
    A little help with this 1st Pattern Pith Helmet Please. These are the only pictures I have. The info I've been given is that the helmet has some staining and a little creasing to the fabric though the helmet is solid underneath, it has no maker stamp or date, but has a size stamp(54), the leather trim has cracking but is still tight and firm with the stitching intact.
    So my questions are.
    Does it all look ok?, standard?, would it tidy up a little? what is a fair price?
    I don't have a 1st pattern, so it would be nice to get one, if worthwhile.

    Thanks
    David
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      #3
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        #4
        From those pics it looks ok, as far as cleaning it up don't ever do that!! There are many of these that pop up, so I would wait for a better example, the leather looks like it is damaged from water/bad storage?? And a fair price for these is anywhere from 450-750.

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          #5
          Agree with Andy. First never clean any cloth item, destroying part of its history. It has sat in a puddle for some time and ruined the brim. Also the dome may have been crushed in abit and put back out, hard to tell from the photos. The maker and date will be unerneath the sweatband. How much $ 200-250us for this one. Good desert veterans helmets can be had for 325-400us fairly common and affordable.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Tim OK View Post
            Agree with Andy. First never clean any cloth item, destroying part of its history. It has sat in a puddle for some time and ruined the brim. Also the dome may have been crushed in abit and put back out, hard to tell from the photos. The maker and date will be unerneath the sweatband. How much $ 200-250us for this one. Good desert veterans helmets can be had for 325-400us fairly common and affordable.
            Hello Tim, Agree with you, I was just trying to give David a full blown retail on these as far as price goes!! I can't believe that I see these on dealer sites for 750+ U.S. And 2nd patterns for 4-450!! But a very underrated and affordable piece of militaria!! Take your time and good luck......

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              #7
              Originally posted by Andy C. View Post
              Hello Tim, Agree with you, I was just trying to give David a full blown retail on these as far as price goes!! I can't believe that I see these on dealer sites for 750+ U.S. And 2nd patterns for 4-450!! But a very underrated and affordable piece of militaria!! Take your time and good luck......
              Agree again Andy. Tropenhelms are the most underated German headgear when you consider that every member of the DAK owned one and wore it often in the desert unlike the M40 cap. Dealers ahh well, i still see AKCT's on dealers sites for $375-525, & unissued 2nd pattern piths for $450+

              Recently a very rare blue LW sunhelmet sold for 7k, now thats crazy talk

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                #8
                LW blue grey Sunhelmet for 7k , german made or french made ?
                French made are rare but relatively easy to find,some are around
                and not for 7k !
                Nick

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                  #9
                  Thanks for the replies, all good advice.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by GAMS1 View Post
                    LW blue grey Sunhelmet for 7k , german made or french made ?
                    French made are rare but relatively easy to find,some are around
                    and not for 7k !
                    Nick
                    Hi Nick,
                    it was the german made in top condition and sold for 5K

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                      #11
                      Hi Gustav !
                      Thanks for the info .
                      German made blue grey's are so rare to see !
                      I know of a nice sand one "overpainted "in blue grey ,well worn and faded ...
                      Nick

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                        #12
                        I can see paying 950 for a decent KM example, (or 850 for a olive drab/green 1st. pattern sun-helmet) but some of these fellows are getting away with murder!!

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Gustav 43 View Post
                          Hi Nick,
                          it was the german made in top condition and sold for 5K
                          Thanks Gustav for correction, yes it is an outstanding German made helmet, not sure CW made maybe ?

                          I see the green LW tropenhelms for around $1200 but those are sweet helmets. & those top drawer KM helmets around $950.

                          Many of those French made blue helmets are war surplus, and then they have been converted to LW with the eagle (often fake) & shield post war. If its with/without any shields around $400-600 tops. Unless there is provenance to the War imo.

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                            #14
                            KM or green first type are much rarer than the sandy ones ...
                            Sandy ones came out en masse from the german old stocks from Italy
                            or from the CZ .
                            2nd model came out en masse from export surplus in the 70's or from the french Army stocks also .
                            The prices are corresponding to the available amount of them !
                            Nick

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by David H View Post
                              Hello,
                              the leather trim has cracking but is still tight and firm with the stitching intact.

                              David

                              cracked leather trim is often a good sign that the helmet was actually worn in a tropical climate. All the veteran brought back examples that I have seen have had this type of wear/ deterioration to the leather. Of course when leather gets wet it can also do this.

                              The shields are the later zinc type so it is difficult to say if this one dates from Afrika. The majority of Afrika "vet bring-backs" out here in New Zealand have been made of the earlier bunt-metal (i.e. brass or nickel-silver) However, sometimes zinc or aluminum is encountered.

                              Your one is a nice example but it is hard to say if it saw real use or just bad storage,

                              Chris
                              Last edited by 90th Light; 04-20-2015, 06:31 AM.

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