E Stand Tropical Hat Opinions

[Glenn McInnes]

A few members expressed concerns to me that this hat may have been tampered with (maybe to replace the insignia) http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=794192

Below is one members comment.


"Please look closely at the center seam line, which shows signs of a prior line of stitching that may have been removed, while the existing thread that remains looks red instead of the olive/ tan thread one should encounter on a wartime original. Furthermore, the left side of the stitching along the crown almost appears to be hand-sewn"




Your thoughts please.




Glenn

[90th Light]

Not an RB number that I have seen before so that and the grommets need double checking (grommet pictures are not clear and no close ups ??? )

Looks to be an original cap. The model of eagle and cockade (third model ?) are both the correct types/ version for a 43 dated example.

To my eye it looks to be the work of a machinist lacking skill or training. May be going too fast to get through their quota for the day. Tension on the bobbin of the sewing machine appears to have been all over the place. Shows signs of spasmodic power to the sewing machine (electric or peddle) and it has struggled to get through the layers of cloth here and there. Thus it has jumped a stitch or two in places.

Reminds me of the type of rough sewing/ seems starting to run off that one sees on original SS reversible cammo caps made in the concentration camps.

Certainly not the best example of workmanship on this type of tropical cap that one could add to a collection,

Chris

[90th Light]

The eagle is applied the same way as a "Felina" (Greiling & Co)

Know as "Zip & Flip". This is where they machine sew along the top of the eagle badge then flip it over and finish off by hand sewing round the eagle or in rarer cases machine sew around the eagle. A straight machine sewing line around the eagle after it is flipped over was not used by many manufacturers of tropical caps. Felina's are the best known for this method (see image below)

However, a lot of controversy surrounds the Felina caps found in Poland in the 1980's after the Berlin wall came down.

Could the example that started this thread be a later war Felina (Greiling & Co) with RB number ? (Be it a very faint, some what blurry RB number ?). Again good clear images of the grommets are needed,

Chris

[BenVK]

I don't see any signs of tampering at all, everything looks exactly as it should for a wartime factory produced cap.

[Peter v L]

Looks all original to me also

Peter

[Tim O'Keefe]

While the additional center seam stitchline is a possible sign of concern, the thread on it looks ok. Have seen red or white thread as well as olive on the interior of originals. From the photos the insignia looks originally applied to me also. However i would want a better pic of the grommets before putting out $1800us...

[BenVK]

I'd love to know how one would be able to open the lining, machine sew on the insignia and then also machine sew the lining shut again?

Impossible IMO.

[Paris Gun]

BENVK:

Impossible? B.S.! IF it could be done, you're certainly one of the "artists" talented enough to do so, as evidenced by your past restorations!

I contacted the owner, as I'm interested in acquiring a large-sized WH Tropical M40. BUT, the comments that this might be a 'Felina' scares me (even though some may argue they are WW2 period-made hats), so I think I should wait for more detailed pics of the gromments and review by others before proceeding any further. Personally, I'd also like to see 'under the hood' images of the sweatband, as well as evidence of further "sewing machine issues" that have been offered to explain the center seam and side panel stitching.

Thank you Gentlemen.

[Mark Gibson]

This is not a "Felina" cap. The cap is a wartime produced tropical example however I do understand your concerns regarding the unusual sewing seen in the interior. Has the top been opened up in order to somehow reapply the insignia by machine sewing? I do doubt this very much but better detailed shots should help to confirm either way. I personally believe that the insignia is untouched and this is quite a nice cap.

Mark

[GAMS1]

No issue at all for this cap !
A nice large size mid war tropical cap .
Nick

[Paris Gun]

If "90th Light" and "Mark G" (whom I consider to be DAK/ Tropical hat "gurus") post comments that indicate further, more detailed, images are warranted &/or helpful so as to enable someone (in particular, both of the aforenamed gentlemen) to make a conclusion with some degree of certainity, then I feel more comfortable to proceed with a degree of caution and wait for further images before I fork over $1800.00.

That said, I am glad to see that so many other knowledgeable posters (known to me to be extremely well informed about about WW2 headgear as well) have posted opinions that seem to justify my original inclination to purchase this hat, as I too believe the hat is original.

However, the concerns expressed by others herein &/or that warranted a discussion thread in the first place concerning this hat dictates prudence, rather than impulsivity, is the best course for me (IMO). Hopefully more images will be forthcoming soon!

[90th Light]

It is important to point out, there are "Felina" (Greiling & Co) caps that are 101% correct, made before May 1945 and beyond doubt veteran brought back. Then there are the ones found in Poland in the late 1980's which appear to be "parts" put-together/ surplus stock caps from bins left over/ not used.

The way the eagle is applied to the cap that started this thread i.e. "Zip & Flip" finished with a straight machine stitch is not common on tropical caps. However, it is an entirely possible war time method of application.

Having another look at the cap which started this thread and the makers stamp. I am left wondering if I can see a number "24" on the line below and centered in the middle of the RB number.

If this is a number "24" then that would indicate a "LAGO" made cap. Lago 24 would be the exact Lago in the city/ region as per the RB number that made or assembled the cap. RB numbered lago caps are not often seen but a stamp in form of

"Size, Date
RB Number
specific LAGO number"

would be absolutely correct as the example made by LAGO "12" below shows. Again, a clear close up image of the stamp will confirm if it is "24" or not ? Could also be "74", "71", "21" ?

Chris

p.s. I have also shown an image of the eagle application on LAGO "12" because it is "Zip & Flip" off-center and finished with a zig-zag machine stitch. This is not my LAGO cap but I regret deeply not buying it at the time. "Zip & Flip" finished off with a zig-zag stitch was used by more than one maker of tropical caps.

[afrikasandman]

I think its a nice factory produced cap. Matt

[RGD51]

The lining in the crown may be (2) pieces. If that's causing some concern it shouldn't. You would have a seam that joined the two together and then it was folded and sewn again creating the seam that runs thru the center of the top. No biggee--have seen it done in Lubstein Panzer officers caps even. The frugal Germans used all usable pieces of material. In other words the the cap top is made of multiple pieces not necessarily one big tear drop piece. The olive material could be two as well.

This is a nice, correct cap....in my opinion.

Robt.