DAK side cap on estand

[RGD51]

Those are really interesting caps. Note that the bobbin thread on the soutache is blue gray like the whole cap is rendered in.
I'm also curious as to how a freight car got diverted (mid war?) and, were its contents just liquidated on a first come first served basis when it got opened and by whom? Probably alot of things can't be accounted for due to the passage of time but it's a scenario that may have happened alot. Maybe Johannes can fill in the blanks at next SOS.

Robt.

[FredBayer]

TimOK,
You're right on. I was there at that first MAXX show in St. Louis. Johan Flock made the BeeHive deal in Austria. He had these 842, 1142 and 1242 Brandts. I bought one of each date...all without soutached, from Johan. Mr. Flock sets up at the SOS.
If any of you can make it to the show, look him up, he'll share the story with you.
There were soutached sidecaps in the cache but all were sold to one individual at the time. He stated that the soutached caps had "a few" different makers. IMHO these have been showing up in more recent years. IMO...any 842 with soutached is a post-war addition.
FBayer

[90th Light]

IMHO these have been showing up in more recent years. IMO...any 842 with soutached is a post-war addition.
FBayer

That is not correct Fred,

there was definitely some "HB 842" found with soutache. In the thread below is an example with a rare white factory applied soutache was shown;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...Beehive&page=3

Here is what B.N.Singer said about this example in post number 13 of this thread. I would be very surprised if he was wrong on this point and personally consider this a nice summation of the situation,

Chris

As Mr. Hritz has indicated, the "story" of these hats is true (to my knowledge).

No, Not all the examples were "Brandt" as is shown by the Pz example also shown in this thread, which came from the same source.

That having been said, a good number of these hats were the un-piped variety and have since been "up-gunned" with different colored piping (one still needs to exercise due diligence when examining them).

A Very nice example of the rare white piped hat, thank you for showing it (field police, smoke and signals were other uncommon service branches that were found, I believe).

B. N. Singer

[Tim O'Keefe]

Thanks Fred, but Chris is right there were a few 842's with piping found. I have a couple photos, one is a transport with a pretty sloppy soutache application & the other photo shows all the different waffenfarbe found in the cache. This thread has it covered well also, post #78

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=Brandt&page=6

[derka]

I would be interested to learn if anyone has got a HB tropical sidecap dated earlier than "8/42" with or without a soutache that they can show ?

Any 7/42, 6/42 or even earlier out there ?

Is "8/42" the earliest HB tropical sidecaps known ?

Chris

Hi Chris,

Personaly, i haven't seen yet an "HB" trop sidecap dated before "8 42", but of course it doesn't imply 100% they couldn't have been made, just an observation.
As a side note for what it worth, i only know an exemple of M40 trop cap, with 4 grommets, date "8 42" and without soutache ever applied on it, but have not seen another with an earlier date stamp from this specific maker.
derka

[90th Light]

Hi Chris,

Personaly, i haven't seen yet an "HB" trop sidecap dated before "8 42", but of course it doesn't imply 100% they couldn't have been made, just an observation.
As a side note for what it worth, i only know an exemple of M40 trop cap, with 4 grommets, date "8 42" and without soutache ever applied on it, but have not seen another with an earlier date stamp from this specific maker.
derka

Thanks derka,

so far every collector who I have talked to has said the same thing.

The earliest date seen on an HB tropical cap is "842"

I have been pondering in the back of my mind if I have seen one dated 742 but so far can find nothing to confirm that,

Chris

[90th Light]

Thanks derka,

so far every collector who I have talked to has said the same thing.

The earliest date seen on an HB tropical cap is "842"

I have been pondering in the back of my mind if I have seen one dated 742 but so far can find nothing to confirm that,

Chris

Adding to what I stated post number 51,

what is the latest date that anyone has seen in these HB caps ???

There were examples in the "Beehive find" that had RB numbers on them and appear to be dated "343".

Has anyone seen an HB cap dated after March 1943 ???


In fact this got me thinking, we know that there are tropical sidecaps dated 1940 but what is the latest date seen on any tropical sidecap ?

It is not often one ever sees an RB number in a WH tropical sidecap (LW trop sidecaps ?). The HB WH examples dated 343 are the only ones that come to mind for me (However, I do have a LW example with an RB number, dated 1943 only).

Are there any other RB numbered tropical sidecaps out there ?

Are there any WH tropical sidecaps dated 4/43, 5/43 or even later ?

Has anyone ever seen a WH tropical sidecap (or any sidecap) dated 1944 ? (official production of the sidecap came to an end in 1943 ?)

Is the WH tropical sidecap an item of German uniform that was made only for the period of the time in Afrika with the known dates of production being 1940 to March 1943 (LW trop. sidecaps ?) ?

Sorry for all the questions but I do not think we have ever discussed this,

Chris

p.s. it is also interesting that the KM & SS never really had a tyropical sidecap

[Tim O'Keefe]

Ok Chris i'll take a shot at it.

I thought i remembered seeing an HB 642 but it was probably an 842 with a faded stamp years ago. So no have not seen any HB sidecap prior to 842. Nor any tropical sidecaps later than those rbn# 343's which have not been confirmed 100% as HB's ? I have been calling the rbn# sidecaps found in the beehives "HB" now for a few years based on close examination. I am sure they are, as they all have the same rbn# too. So March '43 is the latest date.

i have seen CW & Weissbach sidecaps dated Feb '41 from the beehive's and we know CW continued till Dec '42.

In Afrika in the summer and fall of '42 the only supplies being sent to the front was water, food, petrol, & ammo. However as the DAK reached it's zeneth at Alamein and just later with the Allied landings in Morroco/Algiers large amounts of German reinforcements were going to need tropical clothing. So HB may have got the order to help supply this demand. Originally there were six makers of tropical caps but eventually there were at least as many as 32 different makers. So as demand increased more & more makers were involved but it fell off quickly with the defeat at Alamein and Tunisia later in '43. Imagine the DAK solders feelings when they found out the fresh 10th Pz Div had been sent to Tunisia in Nov '42 including the Tiger tank's, yet they had received nothing in six months at Alamein....