Mint m43 einheitsmutze

[4th division]

Would appreciate some opinions showing pro's and cons!

Best Regards,

Frederik

[legionwallonie]

From what is see on my phone it looks good

[4th division]

[hcliffe]

Not crazy about this one. Can you show a better picture of the markings?

[4th division]

[Glenn McInnes]

I certainly would not put it in the "one look original" catagory..I would personally pass on it if it were offered to me.











Glenn

[GAMS1]

IMO a good one but so new that it could cause an heart attack ?
I like the simplified shirt type button holes !
nick

[hcliffe]

A mint EM example with only a size stamp raises a red flag for me.

[RobertE]

It looks as though there are tracks from previous stitching to the left of the size stamp, as you view it. Maybe put together from overcoat lining and wool?

The Germans did reuse materials, but this cap would take a careful looking over.

s/f Robert

[Richard T]

It looks as though there are tracks from previous stitching to the left of the size stamp, as you view it. Maybe put together from overcoat lining and wool?

The Germans did reuse materials, but this cap would take a careful looking over.

s/f Robert

[90th Light]

It looks as though there are tracks from previous stitching to the left of the size stamp, as you view it. Maybe put together from overcoat lining and wool?

The Germans did reuse materials, but this cap would take a careful looking over.

s/f Robert

I do not think that is a sewing machine stitch line. There are actually no holes.

It looks to be a "snagged or pulled thread" to the rayon/ artifical silk of the lining. This has caused a "run" in the cloth because a thread has snagged and then pulled along its entire length.

I use to also think these were old stitch lines from a disassembled great coat. However, I got well worn M43 cap directly from a veteran which had "snag" or "pull" lines all over the lining. If you magnify these snag/ pull lines, there are no clear cut holes from a sewing machine.

Same thing happens with a woollen jersey when you pull a thread but on a bigger scale.

Some of the rayons & artifical silks that the Germans used during WW2 are quite prone to this "snagging" or "run pulls".

As for the rest of the cap, I would need it in hand to say more but it could have a chance,

Chris

p.s. From Wikipedia,

"In textiles, a snag is created when a sharp or rough object pulls, plucks, scratches, or drags a group of fibres, yarn, or a yarn segment from its normal pattern. Snags can be classified into three types:

Snags that have a protrusion and no distortion,
Snags that have distortion and no protrusion,
Snags that have both protrusion and distortion.

Objects that often cause snags are rough fingernails or toenails, or hangnails.

When a snag occurs in certain fine textiles like pantyhose, it is called a run. This is because the snag breaks at least one fibre, causing the knit to come undone in a line which runs up the grain of the fabric.

In clothing, snags can also occur in coarse textiles like sweaters, or in certain types of sport jerseys such as for soccer (football). These are common in synthetic fabrics like polyester, which have extremely fine fibres even when they are used to make coarser fabrics."

[RobertE]

Hi Chris,

I don't think this is a snag. Pulls seem to run with the grain of the fabric, not across it's weave like this does - it curves like an armpit seam. Most damning is that there are two lines that are parallel to each other - like a double seam.

I like the way the cap is built, but I can't get past that double track across the top and side. It just looks too much like salvage material. But I could be wrong.

regards, Robert

[90th Light]

Hi Chris,

I don't think this is a snag. Pulls seem to run with the grain of the fabric, not across it's weave like this does - it curves like an armpit seam. Most damning is that there are two lines that are parallel to each other - like a double seam.

I like the way the cap is built, but I can't get past that double track across the top and side. It just looks too much like salvage material. But I could be wrong.

regards, Robert

I understand what you are saying Robert but without having the cap in hand it is always hard to say more with any certainity.

All I can say is that I have seen that "two line"/ parallel type of snag/ run before.

As I have already stated, I thought it was a sign of previous stitching. I spoke to the curator of the clothing collection at the museum and he said magnify it many times and you will see if it there are stitch holes or just a pulled thread.

Since then I have done that on more than one M43 with a rayon/ artificial silk lining and it has turned out to be a pulled thread.

What part of the cap has "salvage material" ? I am not fully comprehending you on that point ???

Of course I also agree that some fake M43's are made out of greatcoats so one always needs to be on guard and check this point carefully,

Chris

[RobertE]

Hi Chris,

I think we're talking past each other and saying the same thing. Pulls are common on this type material, for certain.

I term "salvage" to mean that process when German industry or unit tailors take damaged uniform items, disassemble them, and reuse the materials. A great example of this is the M43 shown in Beavers SS headgear book, where an M43 cap still has a partial sleeve eagle sewn to a cap built from salvaged material.

In this case, I can clearly see the needle holes even in these initial pictures. This cap liner material came from something that was sewn using a double needle - the question is, during the war or after?

s/f Robert

[90th Light]

Hi Chris,

I think we're talking past each other and saying the same thing. Pulls are common on this type material, for certain.

I term "salvage" to mean that process when German industry or unit tailors take damaged uniform items, disassemble them, and reuse the materials. A great example of this is the M43 shown in Beavers SS headgear book, where an M43 cap still has a partial sleeve eagle sewn to a cap built from salvaged material.

In this case, I can clearly see the needle holes even in these initial pictures. This cap liner material came from something that was sewn using a double needle - the question is, during the war or after?

s/f Robert

Thanks Robert,

I understand what you mean and was confusing "salvage" with "selvage"

Again you raise a very good point, I had not thought of the Germans making caps out of recycled garments before May 1945. On this point I totally agree and the SS M43 shown in the Beaver's book is most definitely a period SS M43 cap made from recycled tunic material.

May be I need to go back and revist what I am summing up as a pull or run in the rayon/ art. silk linings of beyond doubt M43 caps. They may be a period recycled lining material that have had a lot of wear and use after being carefully cleaned/ pressed when the cap was made before May 1945.

O.K. this gives us three possibilities

1/ M43 Cap made before May 1945 from recycled material

2/ M43 Cap made after May 1945 from recycled material

3/ M43 Cap with a snag/ pull/ run to the lining material

I can not say more without having the cap in hand. There are a couple of things I like about it and it does compare nicely with some SS M43 caps showing a size only marking. On the other hand there are a couple of things I do not like and would need to check. Judging something from images alone can be both challenging and misleading,

Chris