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**90th Light** · 03-21-2014, 12:25 AM

This is an interesting Panzer M43 in several ways.

That particular model of trap and beige coloured artificial cotton liner are correct for a cap made in mid to late 44 and on into 1945. It has a good shape to it and is typical of one made from later panzer wool.

How can your friend say it is made in Austria ? Is it because of the type of button hole ? Does he know who made this ?

I would interested to learn more about this one,

Chris

**richthofen_117** · 03-21-2014, 09:54 AM

Originally posted by 90th Light View Post

This is an interesting Panzer M43 in several ways.

That particular model of trap and beige coloured artificial cotton liner are correct for a cap made in mid to late 44 and on into 1945. It has a good shape to it and is typical of one made from later panzer wool.

How can your friend say it is made in Austria ? Is it because of the type of button hole ? Does he know who made this ?

I would interested to learn more about this one,

Chris

Hi Chris, I'm not an expert on M43 caps, my friend said the m43 cap is most fakers cap in all caps, and this example doesn't have original sewn insignia and have two another colour of stamps. This is why he has such doubt.

**helmet guy** · 03-21-2014, 11:01 AM

I happen to agree with 90th light, this cap does have somethings that look right, if it is a fake, it's a damm good one. Shape, material, lining all look good to me, maybe I'm wrong, an in hand inspection would be needed.

**90th Light** · 03-21-2014, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by richthofen_117 View Post

Hi Chris, I'm not an expert on M43 caps, my friend said the m43 cap is most fakers cap in all caps, and this example doesn't have original sewn insignia and have two another colour of stamps. This is why he has such doubt.

Thanks richthofen,

I can see what your friend means and I do not disagree with him on those points. They also give me reason for concern.

At first glance the cap looks right based on images alone but the more one looks, the more one needs to hold the cap in hand to check.

The trap could in fact be a carefully hand sewn example to try and look like machine sewing. Never a good sign in anyones book but sometimes also seen on restored caps,

Chris

**drbill** · 03-21-2014, 04:25 PM

to me, a restored original M-43

**BenVK** · 03-21-2014, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by drbill View Post

to me, a restored original M-43

I'd agree.

**djpool** · 03-21-2014, 07:42 PM

Isn't a cotton liner for a Black M43 kinda rare? Don't really recall seeing one that was blessed as original. Of course not that many black m43s get blessed in general. Mike Davis has about half a dozen Heer Panzer M43s in his caps sold section and all had artificial silk linings. Not making a statement about the hat under discussion, just here to learn. jim

Originally posted by 90th Light View Post

This is an interesting Panzer M43 in several ways.

That particular model of trap and beige coloured artificial cotton liner are correct for a cap made in mid to late 44 and on into 1945. It has a good shape to it and is typical of one made from later panzer wool.

How can your friend say it is made in Austria ? Is it because of the type of button hole ? Does he know who made this ?

I would interested to learn more about this one,

Chris

**90th Light** · 03-21-2014, 08:10 PM

Originally posted by djpool View Post

Isn't a cotton liner for a Black M43 kinda rare? Don't really recall seeing one that was blessed as original. Of course not that many black m43s get blessed in general. Mike Davis has about half a dozen Heer Panzer M43s in his caps sold section and all had artificial silk linings. Not making a statement about the hat under discussion, just here to learn. jim

Hello Jim,

good to have you posting on this one. I agree that an artificial cotton linen lining is not common but they do seem to have used it more in the later half of 1944 and into 45.

May be they could not get sufficient rayon, artificial silk or cotton twill due to logistical challenges ???

May be it was the preference of only a very limited number of M43 cap makers ???

It is interesting that this is the only type of cloth that ones sees used in a red version for WH tropical caps. Does it have a better breathing quality ???

Also because tropical cap production probably stopped some time in 1944, did that free up materials for the production of other caps ?

For me the liner is not common but it is acceptable for a late 44 cap. Other red flags are the cause of concern for me on this one,

Chris

**djpool** · 03-21-2014, 09:05 PM

Honestly Chris I don't know why Black Panzer M43s with cotton linings are so rare. Cotton was in short supply, but there was always enough trees to maintain a good supply of rayon. I believe they used red cotton lining on Tropical headgear because of the way it dispersed heat. I would love to hear from the Panzer folks on this. It would also be nice to see pics of "blessed" Black Panzer M43s with non artificial silk linings. jim

Originally posted by 90th Light View Post

Hello Jim,

good to have you posting on this one. I agree that an artificial cotton linen lining is not common but they do seem to have used it more in the later half of 1944 and into 45.

May be they could not get sufficient rayon, artificial silk or cotton twill due to logistical challenges ???

May be it was the preference of only a very limited number of M43 cap makers ???

It is interesting that this is the only type of cloth that ones sees used in a red version for WH tropical caps. Does it have a better breathing quality ???

Also because tropical cap production probably stopped some time in 1944, did that free up materials for the production of other caps ?

For me the liner is not common but it is acceptable for a late 44 cap. Other red flags are the cause of concern for me on this one,

Chris

**90th Light** · 03-21-2014, 09:33 PM

Originally posted by djpool View Post

Honestly Chris I don't know why Black Panzer M43s with cotton linings are so rare. Cotton was in short supply, but there was always enough trees to maintain a good supply of rayon. I believe they used red cotton lining on Tropical headgear because of the way it dispersed heat. I would love to hear from the Panzer folks on this. It would also be nice to see pics of "blessed" Black Panzer M43s with non artificial silk linings. jim

Yes they would be struggling to get cotton by late 1944 Jim,

Even by 1942, I have read it was a struggle. Thus their later war linens must be so sort of cotton/ ersatz blend. However, they always seemed to have had enough for the tropical cap production. Although the KM used twill material as well as linen for linings in their trop. caps.

I have also read that for WH trop. caps, the red colour dispersed heat but the linen breathes the best. Not too sure where that leaves the LW & KM with their trop. cap linings and what their theory was.

Like you I am also keen to see more panzer examples. Even good regular M43's with linen linings,

Chris

**90th Light** · 03-21-2014, 09:50 PM

In fact I have a feeling I have read that the Germans used "Hemp" & "Flax" instead of Cotton to make linen cloth during WW2,

Chris

**Tim O'Keefe** · 03-21-2014, 10:47 PM

While i can't add anything about the M43, the red cotton lining in tropical caps retained the cooler air within the cap while reflecting the heat on the exterior better than other materials. The Herr tropenhelms also had the red liner. This is according to the Hamburg Tropical Institute.

**djpool** · 03-22-2014, 06:48 AM

Originally posted by 90th Light View Post

In fact I have a feeling I have read that the Germans used "Hemp" & "Flax" instead of Cotton to make linen cloth during WW2,

Chris

Hi Chris,

<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:WordDocument> <w:View>Normal</w:View> <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> <w:TrackMoves/> <w:TrackFormatting/> <w:PunctuationKerning/> <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/> <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid> <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent> <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText> <w

oNotPromoteQF/> <w:LidThemeOther>EN-US</w:LidThemeOther> <w:LidThemeAsian>X-NONE</w:LidThemeAsian> <w:LidThemeComplexScript>X-NONE</w:LidThemeComplexScript> <w:Compatibility> <w:BreakWrappedTables/> <w:SnapToGridInCell/> <w:WrapTextWithPunct/> <w:UseAsianBreakRules/> <w

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ontVertAlignInTxbx/> <w:Word11KerningPairs/> <w:CachedColBalance/> </w:Compatibility> <m:mathPr> <m:mathFont m:val="Cambria Math"/> <m:brkBin m:val="before"/> <m:brkBinSub m:val="******45;-"/> <m:smallFrac m:val="off"/> <m:dispDef/> <m:lMargin m:val="0"/> <m:rMargin m:val="0"/> <m:defJc m:val="centerGroup"/> <m:wrapIndent m:val="1440"/> <m:intLim m:val="subSup"/> <m:naryLim m:val="undOvr"/> </m:mathPr></w:WordDocument> </xml><![endif]--> The Germans did use flax and hemp for clothing production. How much was actually used as lining materials is impossible to determine. Cotton, flax, and hemp are all plant products and would burn in a similar manner. I think it would require a lab to determine what a non rayon liner was actually made of.

I’m working on a 2 volume series of books on Personal items +. One of the Annexes is devoted to textiles. Here are a few excerpts. It won’t flow because I cherry picked various paragraphs from that annex that mentioned flax or hemp.

In 1938 the German production of Artificial Silk was 72,000 tons, and for Spun Rayon 189,000 tons. During 1943-44 the following production figures were provided: Rayon-96,000 tons of continuous filament rayon of all types and 320,000 tons of Zellwolle (rayon staple) of 178 different types, origin, denier, staple lengths and characteristics; Reclaimed fibers-200,000 tons of all sorts; Wool and Angora-13,000 tons-(no artificial casein fiber due to the necessity of conserving the protein food supply); Cotton-practically none, versus a pre-war consumption of 350,000 tons which accounted for 40% of the total fiber used; Silk-6 tons produced at home along with an effort to increase the production of Perlon (Nylon) and PeCe (Polyvinyl chloride), no production figures were available on the production of Perlon and PeCe.; Flax and Hemp-75,000 tons, of which 10,000 was domestic.

A lot of my discussion in the annex is devoted to the French manufacturing sector because it provided so much raw material to Germany negotiated under various kehrl plans.

<text>A third Kehrl plan was negotiated for the period October 1942 to October 1943. Under this plan the Germans were able to get 78% of the estimated wool, 50% of the estimated cotton, and 67% of the estimated flax supplies, both raw and manufactured goods, along with quantities of other textile materials and goods were as follows: 7,800 metric tons of wool(washed or manufactured), 3,100 metric tons of Cotton (raw or manufactured, half had to be American cotton), 8,400 metric tons of flax tow (in yarn or fabrics), 20,000 metric tons of rags (one third wool), 2,200 metric tons of Animal hair, and 20,000 metric tons of Rayon (fiber or in fabrics).
<text>The wool requisition was based on 10,000 metric tons of washed wool being available (80% from sheep in France and the remainder from North Africa). The French were able to cheat the occupiers by under reporting the sheep population and using a lower wool yield per sheep figure (1,000 grams of wool per washed sheep versus the pre war figure of 1,200 grams).
<text>The cotton requisition was based on 6,200 metric tons of cotton being available.
<text>The flax tow requisition was based on a production level of 13,200 metric tons. If actual production exceeded the estimate, then 50% of the excess would go to Germany.
<text>The third Kehrl plan had barely gone into effect when the allies invaded North Africa. This reduced the amount of wool requirement by 20% and lessened the supplies of other fibers, such as animal hairs. When other French possessions like Madagascar, West Africa, etc. were captured, supplies of cotton, sisal, and other fibers were no longer available.

<text>After the loss of these French colonies, the supplies of textile materials available for metropolitan France (excluding hidden stocks and the German allocation) for the period ending October 1943 was: Cotton-3,000 metric tons; Washed Wool-2,000 metric tons (mostly black market); Flax tow- 9,000 metric tons; Hemp and neglected hard fibers-4,000 metric tons; Alpha grass-6,000 metric tons; Sisal-2,000 metric tons; Hair- quantities unknown (the collection of human hair from barber shops and beauty shops was compulsory in towns of 10,000 people or more); Rags-10,000 metric tons mostly non wool; Rayon-28,000 metric tons and Lanital/Nylon- 100 metric tons (mostly lanital). (Authors note- It’s interesting to see that Nylon/Perlon? even in such small quantities was available to the French civilian population). It should be mentioned that the Germans purchased a lot of the available supplies under the guise “indispensable for French needs” as well as through the black market.

<text>A fourth Kehrl plan was introduced to cover the period October 1943 to April 1944. Under this plan the Germans were to get: 4,000 metric tons of wool uniform cloth equivalent to 7,250 metric tons of raw wool, 15,000 metric tons of flax tow and 7,000 metric tons of wool rags. The Germans would deliver “subject to possibilities of delivery” 60,000 metric tons of wood pulp for manufacture of artificial fiber. By the second half of 1943 the Germans were relying less on the Kehrl plan for supplies and buying what they needed at high prices through semi-official German organizations as well as the black market. The overall effect of these practices was to reduce the stocks of textiles for the French population to negligible levels.

<text>Under the third Kehrl plan, wool cloth consisted of 50% wool, 30% rayon staple, and 20% rag raveling’s (wool). Cotton goods for the Wehrmacht consisted of 16.6% cotton, 16.6% rayon, and 66.8% rayon staple. Civilian goods used a similar mix.

<text>The B.I.O.S. report German Textile Industry analysis of the German knitting industry was confined to the mills in the British, American and French zones of occupation. The story of the Germany Knitting Mills during the Third Reich was one of substitution. In 1934 German yarn mixtures containing at least 30% Rayon Staple Fiber (Zellwolle) was made compulsory. The percentage of other fibers in cotton was raised to 50%, then 70% and by September 1945, yarns containing any cotton are unknown. Wool yarns contained less than 50% staple fibers by the end of the war. This proved to be a hardship for makers of quality underwear and outer wear like Jantzen and Jaeger, whose brands were nonexistent by war’s end.

<text>Rayon could be blended with wool, without seriously affecting the quality of the resulting fabric. A 20% mixture of rayon and wool had little effect on quality and even a 30% wool/rayon blend provided excellent results.

<text>Another yarn which saw use during the war was Flockenbast, manufactured from seed flax, flax waste, and hemp. Garments made from this yarn are of very low quality due to unevenness and the quantity of shives. (Authors note- A shive is a small piece of plant after it is crushed and broken into pieces, before the fibers are extracted and combed). This yarn was hard on the knitting machines and rough on the wearers’ skin.

**helmet guy** · 03-22-2014, 08:04 AM

Excellent information, I never realized to what extent the Germans went to, to acquire materials for garment production. Amazing statistics, your books should prove interesting and give collectors much insight into German wartime production of personal items. I think your research will prove that under wartime conditions and due to supply and demand for fabrics, there may not have been such strict rules to field cap production standards as the war approached it's end as some collectors believe. This information may shed more light on M43 cap production from 1943 onward and have some of our fellow collectors re-evaluate their assessment of certain M43 caps. Great work for bringing this to light.

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