Early Zoll ( customs ) visor

[stonemint]

& Theo, the eagle on your hat appears original to me.
So, it could be that the TR ones with Gold eagles are General-equivalent rank, or that the Zoll personnel who wore hats with silver eagles were Administration of some sort.

Wim has the answers.

Here is another Zoll pic--just too hard to tell in B&W fotos whether the eagle is gold or silver:

[stonemint]

& another possibility--for years, pre-1938 Zoll hats have been misidentified as pre-1942 Penal (which did use a gold eagle, but had a green band instead of black). So, many eagles may have been incorrectly replaced.

[DRK]

& another possibility--for years, pre-1938 Zoll hats have been misidentified as pre-1942 Penal (which did use a gold eagle, but had a green band instead of black). So, many eagles may have been incorrectly replaced.

Good point Chris
I like the discussion and I hope that Wim will join us today........

[DRK]

The m29 political cap eagle was also used in the early years....
No the best picture but you can clearly see the small political eagle....

[wilhelm Saris]

Will include the information in volume 6 for the headgear-series. I must have something to tell, isn't!
But why not silver with golden buttons? The worn political style eagle was silvered along with golden buttons. That's just what is said in the regulations.
There is no specific color of eagle for general's, nor for administrative personnel. For general ranked persons this was changed later.

What is in Assmann is correct. The eagle there has a slightly different shape for the lower feathers as for state, but I must check it with other cataloques, as I know others advertised for the round angle for customs as well. What is different for customs in the Assmann is the extra designed feathers. This is not included with the other state eagles of any kind! But I know from othe catalogues the extra feathers are not included with their pattern of eagle.

[DRK]

Wim ,

Thanks for joining the discussion
So other catalogues also mention the "standard" state eagle to be worn on early zoll visors ? interesting....
So now we know that the early zoll visors had both the "special" cap eagle mentioned in the Assmann catalogue but also the "standard" 55 mm state eagle.

I hope we can keep this thread going and learn about the different caps and cap eagles , I'm realy enjoying it

Theo

[DRK]

Found some more 1st.pattern Zoll visors in wear.....

[wilhelm Saris]

When the NSDAP eagle was replaced in ultimate 1936, the state-eagle was worn instead: Landzoll = aluminum (white), in spite of the gilded buttons; Wasserzoll = gilded.

This 1936 form of eagle officially was only worn for a short period of time, while in 1937 the new form customs-eagle was introduced. Photographs show the state eagle worn in late 1937. Maybe even later, possibly even early war while it was not possible to replace all old style uniforms.

[stonemint]

Wim, once again, I learned something new today.
Looks like all those pre-1938 Zoll visors have incorrect eagles on them.
Looking forward to that book!

[DRK]

Wim, once again, I learned something new today.
Looks like all those pre-1938 Zoll visors have incorrect eagles on them.
Looking forward to that book!

I also want an example of that book
Looking forward to it......

[wilhelm Saris]

When all goes as planned the book is sceduled voor 2015, but this depends on Bender Publishing. I think often a new eagle is added in gold,
while the buttons for the tunic are golden.

[Lt. Dan]

An older, but information packed thread. This answers a few questions relating to my early twill material example. Thank you, gentlemen.