KM Jr. Officer's Blue & White Top Visor Cap

[Waffenreich]

Good evening and a Happy New Year!

A picker friend of mine sent me pics of this KM Jr. officer's hat this afternoon. I just looked through probably 50 Threads on KM visors and I can't really see anything on this hat that makes me want to avoid it.

Some basics:

* None of the white components of the hat glow

* The visor's grade embroidery is butted up against the edge welt nicely (with the exception of a small sliver towards the right [as viewed] that I attribute to a little sloppy workmanship)

* There is no vertical seam at the back of the hat joining the mohair band

* It has the cheesecloth buffer between the crown lining and top (although not a sign of originality it is better to see it there than not there)

* Side lining pleats are nice and tight

* The white top, although not the standard waffle pattern, is a type known to be used on KM white tops

* The visor's edge welt is a little wider than I have seen on some of the blessed visors on this site, but I just looked at a large period pic I have of Albrecht Brandi and his looks very similar

* The side buttons look a little bright and don't present the honey-gold fire gilded look we all love, but I'm not sure if that is due to his lighting, a cheap button all-around, or a repro/post-war button (worst case scenario)

The current owner of this cap said it came out about a year ago from a very old museum in France that is closing.

I'll let the pics do the rest.

Thanks in advance for your time in looking at this Thread and any comments (good or bad) you provide. If your comments are negative please explain what caused you to take that position. I think this is critical to the education process.

vr

Bob

[Waffenreich]

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[Waffenreich]

So what do you think? Is it real, or some Bundesmarine/civil POS

Thanks again for looking

[Leroy]

Agree that the visor edging is wider than normal, but I don't see why that should necessarily "kill" the cap. Based just on these photos, it has a good chance, but I'd like to see "under the sweatband" inside. The blue top, I believe, is for an enlisted Tellermutze and is a replacement to this cap, who knows when. More photos needed.

[Waffenreich]

Thanks for stopping by Gentry and giving your thoughts.

I just sent a text to my picker to see if he can take a couple of more pics for us. I'll post them as soon as I get them.

Regarding the blue top - I was thinking about that as well primarily because of the Bekleidungsamt Wilhelmshaven marking. The interesting thing about it from the pic is that it looks like there is plenty of flop in it, enough to look appropriate on a visor so I don't know. What I'd like to see are some other examples of removable blue tops that aren't extreme saddle shapes to see if there is any commonality in terms of markings, shape, etc.. I usually associate the B.A.W. or B.A.K. markings with enlisted items so that does present a little dilemma on this. I will have this cap in my hand Tuesday night and can provide some more info then.

Look forward to seeing you in a few weeks!

Regards!

Bob

Agree that the visor edging is wider than normal, but I don't see why that should necessarily "kill" the cap. Based just on these photos, it has a good chance, but I'd like to see "under the sweatband" inside. The blue top, I believe, is for an enlisted Tellermutze and is a replacement to this cap, who knows when. More photos needed.

[Leroy]

Look forward to seeing you in a few weeks!

I'll be there and hopefully it will be warmer there then than it is here now!

[Waffenreich]

Here are two pics from him showing the celluloid cap band in the area behind the wreath and the only stamp behind the sweatband. It looks like at the 6:00 position it says "(HOLLAND)" in parentheses. There is something before it on the left curve going up that looks like initials "J. ..." and something on the right curve. I'm assuming (logically I hope) "HOLLAND" is where the band was made vs. the name of a maker etc.. Let's assume for a minute the components are all wartime, is it possible this hat was made in occupied Holland after mid-1940?? It's not unheard of on uniforms etc., what about a visor? I'm not trying to grasp at straws, but so far I haven't really seen any red flags (except the wider welt and I agree with Gentry that that in itself is not a killer).

Stonemint - where are you?

vr

Bob

[48RMC]

Hello this is a 100% war time piece made by J.P Mol Breda Holland nice specimen!!! Most of the time i see this construction used by NCO visor caps not by officers so thank you very much for showing us this nice piece. The bill has not been resew?

[michiel01]

I love it!

[Kurt]

Beautiful example of collaboration in WWII. These Breda-made pieces of KM headgear are actually quite common. Here is a thread on them: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ighlight=breda

Could you try to get a better shot of the second stamp in the blue cover?

Kurt

[Leroy]

Great that those inside photos "sealed it"! That other thread was very interesting but didn't show an actual example of the KM officer visor, so this is perfect to link it all together.

I still wonder about the blue top and when it was brought to the cap. I saw in that other thread the tellermutze tops (both "issue" and with the Mol "mimic" stamp) and wonder if Mol was supplied with issue versions for use.

Wonderful cap!

[Waffenreich]

Thank you all very much for the reply. This is great news as I have wanted a KM officer's cap for many years. The fact that this is produced under the occupation makes it more interesting to me. Now I will have to see which top I like better for the display (maybe I can change them with the seasons).

So, based on the comments this cap was produced in Holland. This raises one question for me: were Dutch Navy hats of the WW2 period designed similar to the KM hats, or are they that different that there could be no mistaking this for a converted Dutch Navy officer's visor??

48RMC: No, from the pics the visor does not look like it has been resewn. I will give a better answer when I get it Tuesday night.

Does anybody have a metal KM cap eagle they can spare?? I can pay cash (and will pay a good price for it) and have lots of nice stuff I can offer in trade.

Thanks again and I appreciate any other comments.

vr

Bob