Terek Cossack papakha-kubanka

[NickG]

Thoughts on this Blue-topped Terek Cossack papakha-kubanka with WH Cavalry skull?
I picked it up for $112. (about the price for a modern repro)... This one is very old obviously...

[NickG]

Well worn...bald astrakan spots (and moth damaged...) a salty period piece in my view...

[NickG]

Inside look...
+ period picture of same style tall Russian "Papakha" but with red top for Don Cossacks...
(The German issue Prague made Kubankas with field gray wool + cossack farbe are a lot shorter style Kubanka,
both patterns of coruse often seen in period pictures...)

Thoughts on this Ruski?

[paul.j]

terek

I dont know why you ignore the reference material around and make up your own varients and always go for this type of fantasy rubbish,but if you are happy wasting your money - wish I could throw it away like that.

[NickG]

I dont know why you ignore the reference material around and make up your own varients and always go for this type of fantasy rubbish,but if you are happy wasting your money - wish I could throw it away like that.

Well enlighten me if papahkas were not used by WH cossacks. Look at Von Pannwitz and his aid in the period picture.
It is a well documented fact that ex-Soviet military astrakan fur headgear was used by WH cossacks...
Yes an occupied Czech made WH issue Kubanka would be nice but not everybody can afford a Kolwitz Prag issued textbook German Army (field-gray) low-crowned Kubanka, like this one;
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6836543

So an old ex-Russian Kubanka-papahka would be the next best thing, but I agree you will never know really how old it is unless it is dated and neither when such WH insignia was added, hence the affordable price. Btw I also got some other insignia from the dealer for 1/2 the market value so this hat really cost me not even $50 bucks...below the value of the traditions skull if that turns out to be a ligit one. Worth the gamble I feel! (repro modern made papahkas cost around $100...and this one is very old)

If it had not had the skull on it you would probably be less critical about the hat which is obviously not a repro!
On the other hand WH cossacks DID of course wear all kinds of badges on their hats to show their affiliation (anti-communist feelings)...Pz skulls, cavalry skulls, eagles (even LW eagles) and WH cockades, old tsarist cockades..really anything goes!

So to me it is DEFINATELY not a fantasy set up (but perhaps not a period set up...usually impossible to prove!)
or am I missing something here? (image credit as tagged + NY public Library)

[NickG]

Not a Cavalry skull but instead a panzer collar tab skull added here...(+ eagle )
on short crown Kubankas...Not trying to defend my hat as it is hard to prove...
but obviously this set up is of course not far-fetched...not fantasy!
They would replace the Soviet star with WH insignia or leave the hats unadorned...

[kapitein]

Looks like you got yourself a weird kozak hat, too bad the moths got at it before you did, but hey all these Ruski's are wearing awkwardly simular furs, strange bunch without any strict uniform regs. Guess you could easily muster them with grandma's old fur hat without anybody complaining, couldn't you?
Kapitein

[NickG]

Looks like you got yourself a weird kozak hat, too bad the moths got at it before you did, but hey all these Ruski's are wearing awkwardly simular furs, strange bunch without any strict uniform regs. Guess you could easily muster them with grandma's old fur hat without anybody complaining, couldn't you?
Kapitein

Cossacks, especially those who remained loyal to Russia, were known to have liberated all kind of fur hats from Eastern European cities
(Vienna, Berlin, Breslau, Prague etc... ) straight out of store front window displays, adding their red star insignia!
Anything goes! You are correct!

[besslein]

Eastern European cities
(Vienna, Berlin, Breslau, Prague etc... ) straight out of store front window

Nick as far i know your eastern european cities are in central europe,even i live in one of them

[NickG]

Nick as far i know your eastern european cities are in central europe,even i live in one of them

OK...Central Europe it is! I called them "Eastern" because I am used the word "Eastern bloc" countries ...as opposed to West...
So behind the iron curtain... (=former Soviet satellites) My bad! Yeah you are from Breslau,Silesia (now Wrocław,Poland)
located in Central Europa!!!

Note this "Pz" embellished Ushanka example from an old thread;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=ushanka





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[djpool]

Hi Nick,

I think you did good for the price. Unfortunately without solid provenance or an accepted original to compare it too, it will forever remain an item that a Cossack or other foreign volunteer might have worn. Obviously the accepted manufacturer stamped volunteer Headgear is the most sought after by collectors. But as you have stated Cossack National clothing like the cherkesska, kubanka, bashlyk, papachka etc. were often privately purchased, privately manufactured etc and may have been passed down through generations. Cossack clothing from Imperial times is almost identical to WWII Cossack items except for insignia (which was often not worn). I have several items of Cossack National clothing that I believe to be period, but can not be attributed to the Cossacks or other Volunteer formations. I value them as representative examples of of what a Cossack might have worn. I think your papachka falls into that category.

Regards Jim

[NickG]

Hi Nick,

I think you did good for the price. Unfortunately without solid provenance or an accepted original to compare it too, it will forever remain an item that a Cossack or other foreign volunteer might have worn. Obviously the accepted manufacturer stamped volunteer Headgear is the most sought after by collectors. But as you have stated Cossack National clothing like the cherkesska, kubanka, bashlyk, papachka etc. were often privately purchased, privately manufactured etc and may have been passed down through generations. Cossack clothing from Imperial times is almost identical to WWII Cossack items except for insignia (which was often not worn). I have several items of Cossack National clothing that I believe to be period, but can not be attributed to the Cossacks or other Volunteer formations. I value them as representative examples of of what a Cossack might have worn. I think your papachka falls into that category.

Regards Jim

Thanks Jim. Once in hand (some time next week I anticipate) I will check on maker markings, dates etc...!
based on the liner image I don't see any...So private purchase? No depot stamps etc...
A good but salty "representative example" indeed! Good phraseology!!!

[Rene Chavez]

As Jim nicely stated is hard to determine if the Papashka is pre-WW2 without some provenance unfortunately nothing to add on my part only that you did good for the price.

Rene Chavez
www.foreignvolunteerlegion.com

[NickG]

As Jim nicely stated is hard to determine if the Papashka is pre-WW2 without some provenance unfortunately nothing to add on my part only that you did good for the price.

Rene Chavez
www.foreignvolunteerlegion.com

Thanks Rene! I thought so too! Nice to hear this positive comment coming from a "Freiwilligen" collector!
Here's a German cossack veteran with his (I assume modern replacement) red topped papashka!
Note his Bandenkampf-Abzeichen!!!

[NickG]

Two more period images, one showing a Panzer (collar tab) skull + another (portrait) showing a Cavalry traditions skull!
It was clearly done...