Tropical overseas cap - original insignia?

[Marcel Banziger]

Hello all,

First of all best wishes for 2013 to all of you!
I would like to get some opinions on the following DAK overseas cap which I am interested to buy. It's mint and unissued and I expect this one to be from that 70's find where many of such caps were found with and without soutache added. According to the date and stamp the soutache could be period applied (Clemens Wagner, May 1942). I just wonder about the stitching of the eagle whether this is also factory applied or a later added one? A bit hard to see on the pics from the dealers' site so therefor I wanna ask for some additional opinions from the more experienced collectors.

Many thanks for your help!
Best regards,
Marcel

[Mark Gibson]

The insignia and application looks to be 100% original Marcel.
No issues with this one at all.

Regards,

Mark

[Marcel Banziger]

Thanks a lot for your reply Mark! Much appreciated!

[afrikasandman]

Marcel,

I have no issues with the cap, everthing appears to be 100% right to me. Shame is unissued and minty, never been a fan of the caps that sat out the war but to each their own. Its a very nice original cap. Matt

[Marcel Banziger]

Thanks afrikasandman for your opinion. Usually I also prefer to have used items with typical signs of wear but with these caps it's a bit harder, and quite a bit more expensive to find an original, used one with original attached soutache. Therefor I'm ok with a minty and unissued one in this situation.

Best regards,
Marcel

[Tim O'Keefe]

Agree another "beehive" CW cap. Insignia looks to be original application from this maker, to a nice cap

[Marcel Banziger]

Thanks Tim for sharing my thoughts this could be a "beehive" cap.


I've been reading about all threads about these caps here on the WAF now and everywhere I see that the soutache was ordered to be removed from June/July 1942 and onwards. It's understandable that the August dated caps still can be supplied with the soutache added because the news of having these removed from June/July 1942 on probably couldn't travel as fast to all supllying companies. But I was surprised to see these caps for sale dated November 1942 and even 1943 caps with a soutache added (originally attached according to the dealers).
Are these dealers wrong here? I mean, some of them are the big(gest) names among the militaria dealers and on top they ask huge prices for what probably turns out to be caps with postwar added soutaches (it's mainly Hans Brandt mm caps). Myself I wouldn't wanna have a cap dated November 1942 or later with a soutache added since I can't imagine this was accepted within the German army to go against the rules.

I am curious to the opinions here on the WAF on this.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Marcel

I would agree with what you have stated. Would not want a Hans Brandt dated 1142 or later with a soutache. As its very likely it will have been added postwar. You know what they say about dealers

Nowadays its harder to find a Brandt without a soutache than with one. Not the case a few years ago. The 842 Brandts without soutache have become more sought after since they are original still.

If it is a CW or Weissman or any other maker found in the "beehive" cache most of these are all ok with original soutache applied, these caps predate Nov 42 in most cases.

[Marcel Banziger]

Hello Tim,

On my search I indeed came across just one 842 Hans Brandt without soutache, and several other 842 had the soutache added. The majority I came across was dated 1142 including soutache. These are available for a looong time on these dealers' websites btw and therefor I can't understand why dealers would "upgrade" their caps with a soutache when the collectors know about these date/soutache facts.

Anyway, glad I could find an original myself, even though it's a mint and unissued one

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hello Tim,

On my search I indeed came across just one 842 Hans Brandt without soutache, and several other 842 had the soutache added. The majority I came across was dated 1142 including soutache. These are available for a looong time on these dealers' websites btw and therefor I can't understand why dealers would "upgrade" their caps with a soutache when the collectors know about these date/soutache facts.

Anyway, glad I could find an original myself, even though it's a mint and unissued one

Well, if you are a dealer and can get a Brandt cap w/o soutache for $300-400 then add a soutache and ask for $1000 or even more.....remember the dealers best customer is one that has not done his homework

Originally there were over 400 caps w/o soutache and about an equal number of caps with soutache (and another 400 damaged). At least six different makers included in the cache.

Heia Safari !

[Marcel Banziger]

This proves that doing your homework and searching the WAF can save you quite some money