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Enlisted M40 Tropical Billed Field Cap for Discussion

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    Enlisted M40 Tropical Billed Field Cap for Discussion

    Hello, all!

    I plan on selling the cap under discussion here. I'm sure there will be some controversy as to its originality; hence, I am posting it here first.

    The cap was purchased by me through a dealer about five years ago. It was on consignment to him from a well-known and respected soft-cap collector in the Midwest. He had purchased it at an SOS about five years previous to that but was in the process of thinning out some of his collection. In fact, this particular cap is featured in the color section of Germany's Panzer Elite on page 275.

    Because of the anomalies in construction -- with particular regard to the "dimple" on the cockade -- many tropical collectors have dismissed the cap as a reproduction.

    Over the years, I have solicited the advice of some of the leading lights among the tropical collectors. Mostly through personal discussions and viewings of the cap at shows. The reaction was mixed, but one of the doyens of tropical collecting, who has been collecting since shortly after World War II, handled the cap in person at a MAX Show several years ago and stated that if the cap were not real then he didn't know what was. Whether that was said to spare me my feelings is unknown, but I have never heard him sidestep issues of authenticity, either.

    While I initially thought this might be reconnaissance, I have come to the conclusion that it is for the signals branch. Correspondingly, I am going to sell it, since I only collect recon-related items any more. (Stay tuned for the book!)

    I will be selling the cap for the initial purchase price after the dust has settled here for a few days on the discussion thread.

    More and more detailled images can be found at the following link (it's apparently not a "hot" link, so you'll have to highlight and link from there):

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/pb1dlqbwungpk5z/TYxAlP3uSP

    Regards,
    Bob
    __________
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    #2
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      #3
      More images 2

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        #4
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          #5
          Last image

          Last image. Remember, you can go to the link in the first post to get mo' better pictures!
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            #6
            Hi Bob,

            While your cap certainly looks good to my untrained eye please review these photos from a repro cap I've owned for several years. It doesn't have the sweatband yours has but the stamp and grommets do appear the same. Notice size and maker fonts look identical. Hopefully my fake as a real stamp

            Richard
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              #7
              Grommets and front
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                #8
                Hi Bob

                Personally I think the cockade is a repo. To date it’s never been seen on any know original cap.

                The problem you face, if one is going to spend $3000 plus on a M40 DAK cap , you only want a 100% text book example

                The gromments appear to be hand painted which is another red flag

                The cockade and these caps has been discussed in this thread

                http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...335628&page=10

                MarkS

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                  #9
                  Reproduction cap.
                  This type has been discussed and I have photos on file of the same reproduced cap - with a lovely (& clearly incorrect) '1941' stamp on the lining - obviously since removed from the production process by the fakers.
                  I'll find them and post them here.
                  Clever - but not quite clever enough.
                  Regards,
                  Mark
                  New Zealand.
                  Attached Files
                  Last edited by NZMark; 11-20-2012, 02:45 AM.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by msteve21 View Post
                    Hi Bob

                    Personally I think the cockade is a repo. To date it’s never been seen on any know original cap.

                    The problem you face, if one is going to spend $3000 plus on a M40 DAK cap , you only want a 100% text book example

                    The gromments appear to be hand painted which is another red flag

                    The cockade and these caps has been discussed in this thread

                    http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...335628&page=10

                    MarkS
                    Agree this cap is a fake, including the stamp & grommets.

                    However not all caps with the "red bump" cockade are bad, many are good in fact. (talking about the CW M40's) The incorrect announcement of these caps being bad in 1996 was done without a hands on..... Supposedly these caps were only found in the mid 90's, but some of the caps with the "red bump" cockade are original and have been in collectors hands at least since the early 70's. Just many collectors had never seen one until the Internet came along and stuff started coming on line that you couldnt' have seen in a dozen lifetimes before that. Think its important to make this correction as the myth still continues today.....

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                      #11
                      Agree, Tim - I won't condemn the cap due to the cockade, just to be clear.
                      Mark

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by NZMark View Post
                        Agree, Tim - I won't condemn the cap due to the cockade, just to be clear.
                        Mark
                        Hi Mark

                        How about the eagle ? early one ? Cant tell from the photo.

                        Richards cap looks bad all around by the way...similar stamp to Bob's, fake cockade etc.

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                          #13
                          Tim
                          However not all caps with the "red bump" cockade are bad, many are good in fact. (talking about the CW M40's)
                          Tim, do you have a photo of a CW M40 with such a cockade ?, would appreciate

                          seeing one. Are they flat woven or raised like the example shown.

                          Cheers Mark S

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                            #14
                            Although indistinct I'd say Bob's eagle could be an original while Richard's look's to be a fake - but I'll happily defer to insignia collectors on that score...
                            Mark

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                              #15
                              Originally posted by msteve21 View Post
                              Tim

                              Tim, do you have a photo of a CW M40 with such a cockade ?, would appreciate

                              seeing one. Are they flat woven or raised like the example shown.

                              Cheers Mark S
                              Hi Mark

                              Here on the Gendarme cap thread Ralph has posted one up, post # 14 the CW Rifle Officers cap. The black portion is raised on the originals. Post #16 has two CW caps with dimples also but not the same style as the CW officers Schutzen cap as they are flat woven.

                              http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=335628

                              and here is another CW with a red bumb post # 29 - 34.

                              http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=467580&page=2

                              Have also seen the red bump cockade on a couple LW caps in the Kurtz book.

                              I do not wish to stir the pot as there are deep waters here
                              I really need to renew my membership

                              Cheers
                              Tim

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