unmessed cap

[besslein]

hmmm,,,,,i have sold this visor to this dealer,cap was without insignia,no paper tag,no newsspaper inside, is sold as unmessed......................
http://hannahsreich.co.uk/viewphoto....h=2324&phqu=10

[Arran]

Hmmm...issue really is skirted in the description. Doesn't say either way- only the position of the buckles on the straps is described as "un-messed with"...Still, its far from full disclosure!

[jacquesf]

The seller states clearly " Unmessed with war time issue example!" God, these dealers are just to much. Jacques

[stevezz1]

Dealers Schmealers.......Can't trust any of 'em....

[besslein]

another one
http://hannahsreich.co.uk/viewphoto....h=2377&phqu=10
i have sewn this trapez abaut 1997-98,but i have sold this one in Germany,not to this deal man.,still sold as "factory sewn insignia"

[Fsoq]

Besslein,
It seems that you sold some unmessed items that you did'nt know
Another proof that all those uniforms/caps with original applied insignia found on most dealer sites have been "originaly" sewn/put some weeks ago.

When I started to collect 20 years ago, here in Europe, it was really really difficult to find a cap or jacket with period insignia. Most of them having been denazified. Now they are all "unmessed", "untouched", as "found"...

[Martin Stiles]

hat

Besslein, A friend has pointed your post to me, normally I dont comment but I feel
I must put the record straight, I of course buy many caps and often I cannot recall where I purchased a particular cap form as is the case here, however I am prepared to accept I may have bought the cap from you, I have never ever
placed a name tag, or old newspaper in any hat! it is wholly possible I found insignia for the hat. The hat is a sleepy original cap complete with its strap no deception was intended or made at any point.
So far as the M43 cap you point out, the description on any future M43 will read machine applied, however your work decieved me!
Martin Stiles
Hannahs Reich

[jacquesf]

The question is now , how did it get in there? The newspaper that is. I think it was done by Royal Mail employees. Jacques

[JohnT]

it is wholly possible I found insignia for the hat. The hat is a sleepy original cap complete with its strap no deception was intended or made at any point.

The insignia magically floated through the air and landed on the sleepy old cap?
Are you bloody kinding me mate

[besslein]

Besslein, A friend has pointed your post to me, normally I dont comment but I feel
I must put the record straight, I of course buy many caps and often I cannot recall where I purchased a particular cap form as is the case here, however I am prepared to accept I may have bought the cap from you, I have never ever
placed a name tag, or old newspaper in any hat! it is wholly possible I found insignia for the hat. The hat is a sleepy original cap complete with its strap no deception was intended or made at any point.
So far as the M43 cap you point out, the description on any future M43 will read machine applied, however your work decieved me!
Martin Stiles
Hannahs Reich

Martin,come on.i have sold you the cap for 2500e few years ago,we have even talk on the phone abaut the deal.sure the cap is real,and nice,but for first time as you have offered this one ,hat was only restored with insignia,to my suprise.later (for second time)the cap was sold with blind name tag and some newspaper ........shocking ,as im from army family,and we dont do thinks like that
,to be honest,i have talked today with my father abaut,he as ex army ofifcer just cant belive that.
ok.end of story.

[PAUL.H]

Martin,come on.i have sold you the cap for 2500e few years ago,we have even talk on the phone abaut the deal.sure the cap is real,and nice,but for first time as you have offered this one ,hat was only restored with insignia,to my suprise.later (for second time)the cap was sold with blind name tag and some newspaper ........shocking ,as im from army family,and we dont do thinks like that
,to be honest,i have talked today with my father abaut,he as ex army ofifcer just cant belive that.
ok.end of story.

i wonder how many other items on the site have been upgraded/restored without a full and honest description . .....regards pavel

[piw]

i wonder how many other items on the site have been upgraded/restored without a full and honest description . .....regards pavel

Most of them. There a very few straight dealers out there. Fed up with reading about blatant dealer mis-representation of items - its basically criminal. This dealer is no good.

[BenVK]

Fed up with reading about blatant dealer mis-representation of items - its basically criminal.

I'm fed of reading about it too but the fact is that we are all to blame and in a lot of cases, we are also mis-representating items as well.

I've lost count of how many caps that I've personally restored that have appeared for sale without any word of the fact that I'd re-sewn the peak or sweatband back on. Is that not important to mention?

I say we are to blame because until we wake up and stop demanding and paying premium prices for so called "untouched" items then the practise of claiming that they and the disappointment of finding out they are not, will never end.

But the current situation means that it's not easy to declare full disclosure because it seems that items that have been restored or put back together have a stigma around them. I've got an SS sidecap on the estand right now that no one wants despite the ridiculously low price and I know that it's because I've addmited that the insignia has been restored recently and by myself. If I had kept my mouth shut, I'm sure it would have sold pretty quickly.

So, am I tempted to not say anything next time? you bet I am but if I do, the vicious circle keeps repeating itself over and over again.

In all fairness though, I don't think we ever did or do have a massive problem with this in regards to hats. The real problem is with tunics and I'm completely bored to death with collectors crying that their "untouched" SS tunic e.g. is in fact a restored piece but with original insignia. Really? what a surprise!! Do collectors really think that there is an unlimited supply of tunics complete with insignia and in some cases awards still attached? The big thread about Winkler caught a lot of attention but not many people so far seem to have woken up to the facts about what goes on and has been going on for years.

[BenVK]

Actualy, I'm willing to make a bet with you guys just to proove a point.

This SS visor was on auction a few days ago. I bid on it but didn't get it.

I bet £50 that this cap will eventualy appear somewhere, restored but with the claim that it just came out untouched from a GI's footlocker or something like that.

[N.C. Wyeth]

Ohio auction - wirklich?

Actualy, I'm willing to make a bet with you guys just to proove a point.

This SS visor was on auction a few days ago. I bid on it but didn't get it.

I bet £50 that this cap will eventualy appear somewhere, restored but with the claim that it just came out untouched from a GI's footlocker or something like that.

So that's the one, Ben?

Shame you missed out . . . and with that cockade on the front, hopefully it will be easy to spot the "shyster" who attempts a poor misrepresenation on this one after an insignia switch . . . certainly, that has to leave behind a few easily noticed telltale tracks, don't you think?