This is a local find.I think the officer piping was silver and has tarnished.I believe it to be a second pattern army cap.Please give your opinion on originality .The only marking is a 59 size on the inside and has been worn.
Thanks
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65Comment
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Hello Actionoke,
Your cap looks like it was intended to be a general rank example with gold piping. If it was real then it would be a very valuable and rare find indeed. Sadly that point alone may indicate that things are not what they appear to be
These caps were found stored in Poland in reasonable numbers. I do not know if anyone ever established that they were made in Poland or not but that is where they were found. I was told that several were given away in a America as part of a Gun-shop's sales promotion or some thing like that. They were picked up for a very low price per item not long after the wall came down when several rushed over to the former Eastern bloc to get the goodies.
Advanced DAK collectors dismissed them pretty well right from day one as not real and that has been their fate ever since. No collector I know of has ever had a veteran brought back example so that tells us all something.
The grommets are made of Aluminum and this has not helped them either because no one has ever seen an original tropical cap with Aluminum grommets (common weak point with reproduction tropical caps is getting the grommets right) plus they have no maker mark which is also a rare for tropical billed caps.
They do appear however to be made of original material, thread and insignia but the lining is an interesting shade of red. The outer material appears to be reasonable sized off-cuts.
If they were original then they would have to be of 1942 manufacture before an RB number for this manufacturer was issued/used (have a size only like many SS M43's caps) and before the soutache was dis-continued. Although interestingly your example appears to have never ever had a soutache.
Worth having an example to study because they are very well done. You would not want to pay over the odds however.
The over-whelming feeling at this stage is "reproduction" and unless some one comes up with something solid then that is how they will stay. Probably one of the best fake DAK caps ever made to date.
The "Pink Smock" of German tropical
ChrisComment
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Indeed Chris,
Not one I'd own. Another factor is that one would expect the manufacturer of an officer's grade cap to stamp the cap rather proudly as all known officer cap's makers did (that we know of so far). Surely a factory made cap for a general rank officer would have 'blown their own trumpet' rather loudly....
MarkComment
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I ACTUALLY think they were made in poland not long after the wall came down and marketed by a gentleman from the eastern USA whom shall remain nameless...I could quite often be seen scouring shows for unused cap insignia..wait 6 months..WELLAH.. old time collectors might remember seeing these at the SOS and MAX shows 20 plus years ago officers em panzers behind a pretty glass case..JMHO Billbert
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Hi guys,
I think this is one of those caps as well.
JohnComment
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what a BS story not for first time from you abaut the Poland storage,no one here in Poland has ever !!!heard abaut this.............Originally posted by 90th Light View PostHello Actionoke,
Your cap looks like it was intended to be a general rank example with gold piping. If it was real then it would be a very valuable and rare find indeed. Sadly that point alone may indicate that things are not what they appear to be
These caps were found stored in Poland in reasonable numbers. I do not know if anyone ever established that they were made in Poland or not but that is where they were found. I was told that several were given away in a America as part of a Gun-shop's sales promotion or some thing like that. They were picked up for a very low price per item not long after the wall came down when several rushed over to the former Eastern bloc to get the goodies.
Advanced DAK collectors dismissed them pretty well right from day one as not real and that has been their fate ever since. No collector I know of has ever had a veteran brought back example so that tells us all something.
The grommets are made of Aluminum and this has not helped them either because no one has ever seen an original tropical cap with Aluminum grommets (common weak point with reproduction tropical caps is getting the grommets right) plus they have no maker mark which is also a rare for tropical billed caps.
They do appear however to be made of original material, thread and insignia but the lining is an interesting shade of red. The outer material appears to be reasonable sized off-cuts.
If they were original then they would have to be of 1942 manufacture before an RB number for this manufacturer was issued/used (have a size only like many SS M43's caps) and before the soutache was dis-continued. Although interestingly your example appears to have never ever had a soutache.
Worth having an example to study because they are very well done. You would not want to pay over the odds however.
The over-whelming feeling at this stage is "reproduction" and unless some one comes up with something solid then that is how they will stay. Probably one of the best fake DAK caps ever made to date.
The "Pink Smock" of German tropical
ChrisComment
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Not certain about that JohnOriginally posted by John Degioanni View Post
Some construction differences....
MarkComment
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Now that I take a closer look, I believe you are right. They are quite different.Originally posted by NZMark View Post
JohnComment
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Hello besslein,Originally posted by besslein View Post
please read "billbert's" post number 6.
Funny how he also knows about the "Poland" connection and the "gentleman from the eastern USA whom shall remain nameless" who marketed them in the USA.
In fact, if you can get back to some of the older threads (on WAF) before 2004 and perhaps some after that date. You might just find the story for yourself about how they were found in Poland, not long after the wall came down. Once they got to the USA, many were used as a give-away in a store promotion and Manions had more than its fair share listed in their auctions
I have been on the trail of where these came from for a long time and can tell you exactly where in Poland they were found. It was of course not part of Poland before 1945 but may be for now that (as Billbert says) shall "remain nameless".
Given the rude tone of your post directed at me. Please be so good as to share with us your knowledge, research or at the very least a story about what you know in regard these unmarked tropical M40 caps from the 1990's.
After all if you are so certain that I am wrong, then surely you have more than a whisper, a prayer, a prod or a poke to back up your accusation,
ChrisLast edited by 90th Light; 08-13-2012, 01:24 AM.Comment
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my cap here had badges as you can see on for a long time as there is a clear colour difference and i presume the silver has tarnished and is not General officers.So what is the opinion here ...real or not?
ThanksComment
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Dak cap
looks to me that its had two different cap eagles applied at some timewhat is the opinion here ...real or not?
Not one I want in my collection, very similar in many ways to Janke copies
Mark SComment
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Fading and removing insignia is quite common for fakers to give a cap (or tunic) some credibility. The removed insignia may also have been easy to spot fakes, hence the removal. In all honesty, seeing that much thread from removed insignia is also a very large red flag for me that just makes you look at other issues with a piece. Despite this, the cap is a very obvious fake.Originally posted by actionoke View Post
Chris, very interesting overview of the history regarding these fakes.
MarkComment
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