SS Officers Crusher

[RobertE]

Thanks for commenting, I know you know these caps inside and out. Same maker alright - hard to know if one copied the other.

Of course, the visor you posted is a regular one, or is trying to be, instead of a crusher. Same maker, for certain though.

s/f Robert

[Kurt]

Robert,

I haden't commented on this crusher before as I was really torn simply because you can't apply the experience from Wehrmacht caps to SS at all times. I have never handled an original SS officer's crusher & only had a gut feeling. I think I am pretty open minded to irregulaties & when I have doubts, I always give an item the benefit of the doubt. I figured this might be a foreign-made example and figured I wait for more pics.

Your additional photos, however, show a VERY red flag ONLY found in West-German post-war caps so far... the other stamp isn't too convincing either (to say the least)...

[RobertE]

Thanks Kurt, I posted this for comments - not afraid to find out if it's real or not. Please feel free to email me the red flag, as I'd like to know.

I don't know what to make of the circular stamp, which doesn't appear to have even been centered on the band.

[Kurt]

... Please feel free to email me the red flag, as I'd like to know.

I don't know what to make of the circular stamp, which doesn't appear to have even been centered on the band.

Robert,

look what a visor geek I have become --- saying there is a red flag and assuming you'd see the same thing. I apologize!

It's the #s running inside the sweatband. I once owned a "Signals officer's" visor (or that's what it was trying to ressemble at least) of very high quality that also fooled me. It wasn't like I had just started collecting headgear at that time, these Alteste caps can be VERY tricky.

Here's a thread that should be of interest to you: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=signals

The other stamp was added to give it a touch of authenticity (you know Germans like to stamp stuff) -- I'd say it's safe to assume that you won't find such a stamp in any period SS cap.

Kurt

[stonemint]

Robert,

look what a visor geek I have become --- saying there is a red flag and assuming you'd see the same thing. I apologize!

It's the #s running inside the sweatband. I once owned a "Signals officer's" visor (or that's what it was trying to ressemble at least) of very high quality that also fooled me. It wasn't like I had just started collecting headgear at that time, these Alteste caps can be VERY tricky.

Here's a thread that should be of interest to you: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=signals

The other stamp was added to give it a touch of authenticity (you know Germans like to stamp stuff) -- I'd say it's safe to assume that you won't find such a stamp in any period SS cap.

Kurt

Kurt--good eye on the triple serial #s:

[RobertE]

Yes, I'm glad someone could shed some light on them.

It looks like the linked visor has the same type markings. Are these leather bands considered completely post-war, or original left-overs used in the Alteste replicas?

regards, Robert

[Arran]

These serial numbers are seen only on post-war produced leather sweatbands. The patent leather bill and visible grain of the velvet would also put me off...

[RobertE]

Thanks Arran. The grain is visible on many original velvet bands, and patent leather with a textured underside is noted on original examples of these.

When I found those numbers and posted them, I hoped they would provide a clue. It looks like they have. He round stamp didn't both me; it looks like a partial party stamp that may work it's way into other leather-billed caps in a prouction shop, but those numbers...

Out of interest, are the post-war sweatbands replica, or used in post-war issue caps?

s/f Robert

[stonemint]

Thanks Arran. The grain is visible on many original velvet bands, and patent leather with a textured underside is noted on original examples of these.

When I found those numbers and posted them, I hoped they would provide a clue. It looks like they have. He round stamp didn't both me; it looks like a partial party stamp that may work it's way into other leather-billed caps in a prouction shop, but those numbers...

Out of interest, are the post-war sweatbands replica, or used in post-war issue caps?

s/f Robert

Dr Breuer (the maker of the Alteste fakes) used the triple serial # bands in his early caps. They are also commonly found on early Bundeswehr (all branches) visors. You will also see them in 1950's Austrian Bundesheer visors as well.

[phild]

Going back and re-reading the linked thread about the triple number stamps is hard to argue about as the evidence in that thread is very strong.

This crusher may be 40-50 years old so it honestly looks like it has been together a long time. It looks even better (more original) in the photos posted yesterday than in the first ones...it probably is made from some period materials and perhaps by someone who even made them during the war if Stonemint's idea on their origin is true.

The visor texture (top and bottom) may be off the norm for what we usually expect from wartime crushers...but not out of the question.

[stonemint]

Pics of another "Elegant":

[stonemint]

Pics say it all:

[RobertE]

Great dedication at getting to the bottom of this - thanks for taking the time out from the show to provide additional information. Your dedication to visor cap research is impressive - thank you.

Two questions:

1) Is there an actual "Elegant" wartime monogram marking that these were copied from, or is it a complete fabrication?

2) Since the leather triple-stamp bands were first seen in the early 1950's and are seen on a number of otherwise perfect caps, could these be or original wartime left-overs?

I think I've seen that General's cap on Gunbrokers, where it looked alright, but your photos show a pretty shabby construction in hand. Thanks again for taking the time to post to this thread - I really appreciate it.

regards, Robert