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    #1

    assistance with "old style" artillery crusher

    Hey Guys,
    I have the chance to pick up an Artillery "old style" crusher with the soft leather visor that has a lot of character(that is what caught my eye to purchase it) and I have a few questions as to some anomolies this hat has that I would like to know your thoughts as these things being major "red flags". I am not a hat collector at all so am a bit out of my league here and just looking for your input. I won't have photos till later next week. The first concern I have is that the hatband is placed with the seam in the front of the hat. Now I know 99% of the hats I see the seam should be in the back but I have seen a few for sale with the seam in front. Now if I was a faker I would definately not put together a hat and knowingly place the seam in front..so this could be just one of those things. The second thing about this hat is that it does not have the cloth eagle and cockade...they are metal. Looks to be silver and early period as the wreath is smaller than later in the war. Let me know what you guys think about this.

    Thanks,

    Greg
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    #2
    My insights

    Greg,

    Now, Im sticking my neck out for the heck of it because everyone knows you need fotos here barring a hands on inspection.

    So here is what I think based off of no fotos and only what you have said. The sweatshield is improperly sewn meaning it could have been replaced but in a bad way. The insignia is incorrect for a crusher cap and although I havent seen a period foto of a crusher with metal insignia I wouldnt be surprised too. Regulation wasnt the norm is how I feel about uniform wear in WW2 German armed forces. It is possible someone used original replacement insignia not knowing what they were doing which makes me raise eyebrows. Two strikes so far. I hold off an calling the third until I see images.

    Comment

      #3
      Lloyd,

      Thanks for your input..ya..I know pics would help..I wont get the hat until next week..I think I would have no problems on a return if it isn't up to snuff...as for the insignia..I agree..not the norm..but collecting ss cloth..I do find a lot of things that are not the norm..and you would think with SS that regulations would be adhered too..but no. So for metal insignia being on the cap..not a real big probelm with me..I don't see any signs of cloth insignia ever being on it but will take a real close look when in hand again. I think you have hatband and sweatshield confussed..it is not the inner sweatshield but the hatband..on the outside of cap..that is on with the seam in the front behind the insignia. Thats what I find strange..but since I have seen a few others like it..one somewhere on this forum and another for sale on a dealers site. I just can't see a faker doing this knowingly..or that stupid to do it anyway.

      Greg

      Comment

        #4
        Hi Greg!

        Sight unseen, all I can tell you is that, yes, some cap makers did put
        the band seam on the front of the cap when it would be totally hidden
        by the cockade badge. This gave the cap an even cleaner overall look.
        It is most commonly seen on Luft officer's visors. I have seen it occur
        on crushers too. If your cap is original, then it was intended to have
        the BEVo patches in place, and the large flat wreath would have covered
        the seam. No doubt they have been lost to time or maybe simply
        replaced by the original owner out of preference for the metal type.
        Few types of headgear exhibit a deeper personal affection than the
        crusher, and they were regularly customised by their proud owners
        to be distinct from their comrades. The front seam alone does not
        guarentee authenticity of course.

        Comment

          #5
          Is the cap a true "crusher" or a converted peaked cap? If a converted peaked cap (which happened as often as crushers), then the metal insignia may be better explained. I'm looking forward to the photos.

          Comment

            #6
            Thanks guys...I would have to say just by looking at it and the shape it is in it was orinally a crusher but when you see the pics you can tell me more..like I said..not a hat collector. When I get the pics I will forward to someone to post for me as I don't have those rights at the moment.

            Thanks,

            Greg

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by Jack Melvin
              ...If a converted peaked cap (which happened as often as crushers), then the metal insignia may be better explained...
              Yes, but then that doesn't explain the front seam! I've never seen a
              Heer visor with one. There is absolutely nothing wrong with metal
              badges on a crusher. Once it was in the owners hands, it all came
              down to a matter of personal taste.

              Comment

                #8
                Yeah, the front seam really doesn't bother me. In hat construction, with so many cottage industries out there, never say never on something like that. People will tell you that Luftwaffe enlisted/NCO peaked caps should not have a seam on the front. But, I can show you at least two that are straight up correct.

                Metal insignia on a crusher though kinda defeats the idea of a crush cap. But, of course, it happened as well. But, to me, it sounds more like it is probably a field converted peaked cap.

                This is all conjecture, as we await the photos!

                Comment

                  #9
                  OK, Greg got the cap in. Here (hopefully) are the photos. There are lots. I've got my opinions, Brian, what about you? Sarge, what do you think about the front seam?
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