Polizei Bergmütze for review, opinions please?

[Zauberflöte]

Gentlemen,

Consensus with most seems to be that all green piped two button style Police caps with vents are post-war West German examples. Still this example reflects in my opinion the correct wartime manufactured features, were post-war used caps IMO differ in construction, materials and liner (they often have a sweat shield as well). The sweatband in this example is marked "Deutsche Industrie", the insignia neatly handstitched and 'puffy', no signs of previous attachments.

I could however debate the double row of stitching on the brim/visor? This is indeed unusual but also appears on the examples published in Bender's Uniforms of the German Police (Vol I page 656), D.Deuster Deutsche Polizei-Uniformen (not the stitching but it shows the grommets and double button; page 69) and another one in Munoz' Hitler's Green Army (Vol I page 341). Are these caps therefore subject of being post war as well?

Any solid opinions highly valued.

Thank you.

F.

[Zauberflöte]

2.

[Zauberflöte]

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[Zauberflöte]

4.

[Zauberflöte]

5. Last

[germanpolice]

Not looking good

[billbert]

Like it more than the other one on here...Billbert

[Zauberflöte]

Like it more than the other one on here...Billbert

Thank you Billbert, is it the one in http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=587944 you are referring to?

Indeed these are the post war manufactured caps I know of and I think they are a world apart in many aspects...

Please take notice of the IMO wartime quality wool used in my example, the marked sweatband, buttons, type of piping..and place this in the correct perspective... Could it be that a narrow "textbook" standard vision in which all two button piped caps are ruled out, that actually variations could have existed? After all, especially within the Police you see all kinds of production styles Bergmütze and M43 style caps.

In the Police thread was mentioned that the smaller type of trapezoid used is mainly seen within Feuerpolizei. Still I like the way the insignia are attached and although not good visible in the photo but they do show even wear and discoloration.

Any more opinions?

Best
F.

[billbert]

I picked up an INCREDABLY rare hat out off the woodwork that had a very similar lining and sweatband very much like yours... Billbert

which is why I said on your cap I like it more than I dont...

[RobertE]

Many of the post-war green piped caps that I've seen are a fine grade of doeskin, or some other material of higher quality. The wool used in the body of your cap, the liner, and the sweatband all look like pre-1945 stuff to me. I would have expected hollow-back buttons, but both were used.

The late-war method of attaching the eagle, in a modified trap style, and the roundel attachment I've only seen on very late models, which this does not appear to be. I would have expected the sewing to follow the outline on both insignias, though I do have and believe in late war trap sewing on police caps.

The mountain style cap - shorter bill, vent hole, partial sweatband, no pull-downs - along with the green piping make this look like all those post-war caps that are passed off as pre-1945 GJ. There's one on ebay now, and it's been there for months.

I have one of these caps that I got earlier, and I keep it on my "I'm not sure" shelf. They are made correctly, but I think these need more research before they are allowed into my circle of trust.

Nice looking cap, either way!

regards, Robert

[Zauberflöte]

Many of the post-war green piped caps that I've seen are a fine grade of doeskin, or some other material of higher quality. The wool used in the body of your cap, the liner, and the sweatband all look like pre-1945 stuff to me. I would have expected hollow-back buttons, but both were used.
.....

I have one of these caps that I got earlier, and I keep it on my "I'm not sure" shelf. They are made correctly, but I think these need more research before they are allowed into my circle of trust.

Nice looking cap, either way!

regards, Robert

Thank you for your response Robert, I’m on the same track.

Main reason why I’m still on the fence regarding my example is due to the stitching on top of the bill/visor.
I would love to hear or see more about this to get this cap from my own “not sure” shelf,.. either way.

[RobertE]

I have a good pre-1945 top stitched army officer M43, but it is not the norm and will never be accepted as original. But it's on my "real" shelf.

Time will tell. It's a pretty apparent feature, so if original, we should eventually see photos surface.

I'm hanging onto mine, just in case...

regards, Robert

[Zauberflöte]

Not looking good

I've seen your response in a different related thread; I think your accepted rule is that all (double button?) green piped caps should be considered bad..?

Of course you don't have to explain, but I would be curious on what you base your assumption?