M34 Cap with Panzergrenadier soutache

[kenny andrew]

Hi Guys,

I have been studying the forum but still not sure how to tell a good Willy Sprengpfeil stamp from a bad one. Could I get a second opinion on this one please?

[kenny andrew]

side view

[kenny andrew]

inside

[billbert]

Fake...Billbert

[kenny andrew]

Thanks Billbert so what are the differences between this Sprengpfeil stamp and an original one? What should I be looking out for?

[m.alex]

Hi!

This cap looks like OK!
Sprengpfeil stamp looks like original stams for me!
No red flags.

Alex

[kenny andrew]

Thanks Alex

now it gets confusing , one bad comment ,one good comment.

A friend has sent me a PM containing what I presume is an original Sprengpfeil stamp.It does look very similar to me although the style of date is different.

Is this stamp original? Is the one on the cap original? or are they both fake?

Could we have some more opinions please?

[m.alex]

Hi Andrew,

I think one producer could have more different stamps. Sprengpfeil produced caps all years in the war. Sprengpfeil Mützenfabrik were founded in 1911 and not closed after the war, produced till '80 years.

Best,
Alex

[90th Light]

The stamp shown in post number 7 is the most desirable version for sure because it is the one that turns up in the field grey caps. The question remains however, did Willly Sprengfeil use only one version or font of stamp throughout the entire war

Other manufactures such as Carl Halfar did not so why Sprengfeil ? Halfar's have small diffences in stamps for the years 1940, 41, 42 & 43. They also applied slightly different styles to different types of caps. For example, a tropical M40 verses an Org. Todt M43

When one encounters the Panzer black version of a sidecap made by Willy Sprengfeil, it always has a slightly different but consistent version of the stamp.

Another thing to look at, is the font of the date stamp used. To date, I have observed two different sizes of date stamp being used. The date stamp in the cap which started this thread is different to either of these so that point needs more investigation.

I would be interested to know why "Billbert" does not like the cap. He has seen a lot over the years and knows his science when it comes to these.

Clearer, larger face on images of the stamp and the grommets would be a real help. The pictures posted are limited in what can be seen to be sure.

One of the factors which I feel is misunderstood by collectors today, is the use of sub-contractors by big brand cap makers in Germany at this time. There is clear evidence that to meet some large orders. Some of the work or component parts were sub-contracted out to meet the the dead-line. Just recently, this was discussed concerning the differences in the placement of a soutache on two Carl Halfar tropical M40's. These two caps were 101% correct in every way but just a bit different from each other in regard to how the soutache was attached at the bottom of the cap. The answer, use of sub-contractors or cottage industry components.

One more thing which needs to be considered when looking at a Sprengfeil cap. In 1939 Willy Sprengpfeil was in financial difficulty. They entered into a cooperative partnership with Gloy and and began licencing some of their production to reduce their fixed operations. This could also be a reason that just not one stamp was used. In this regard there is some sort of joint venture with "Opolka & Muller" and other manufacturers in Hamburg,

Chris

[billbert]

OF course there is a possiblity I ve made a mistake on the cap posted..I dont think i did but...Not crazy about the stamp..close but no cigar from 1 I had a while back..from the fotos the lining material also does not look right..too LIGHT a color..If someone has the Wilkins headgear book there is a nice shot of a liner..Cap used to me mine back when..Billbert

[RGD51]

Billbert is right. The cap that begins this thread is a bad repro, stamp and all, and the stamp posted in #7 is bad too! Sorry to say. Agree though about makers changing their stamps as in C.Wagner and R.Lubstein and 'maybe' Sprengpfeil did too but, I have seen none that didn't look like the classic rectangular stamp shown in Saris vol. I. Note the bold font word 'Sprengpfeil' and the thinner fonts of the other words also the stacking and spacing of the lines.

Robert

[kenny andrew]

Thanks guys, the cap does not belong to me ,so sorry I can't provide better photos. Bill yes I have the book, your cap is on page 124 there does seem to be differences.

I'm not getting a good feeling about this cap.