Heer panzer overseas cap opinions

[OSS]

this is the 3rd EM overseas cap i have seen in the last month that has this exact type lining, the other 2 were near idenitical to this one, minus the soutache and the markings. both them hats, were IMO 100% original with re-applied insignia. very interesting to say the least.

If by the exact type lining you mean white, that is extremely unusual.

[90th Light]

I'm not quite sure why this feature merits apologies and explanations, but if you look closely at the jagged edge of the stamping border you will see that the irregularity corresponds exactly with the undulations in the white ribbed fabric that were caused by the machine stitching used to assemble the crown of the cap (IMO). To me this indicates the lining was stamped after the cap was constructed and while this does not in itself mean necessarily that the cap is fake, it is certainly a "red flag".

You make a very good point.

If however, one over inks a stamp. Then if you do not press super hard, you can still achieve a clear stamp. This might be the case here. They did not press the stamp hard into the cloth.

Also, your point about the liner material being stamped before it was sewn into the cap. I believe that this is true of the larger "mass production", "assembly line" type manufacturers like Carl Halfar for example. I do not however believe that it is always the case for the smaller "cottage" type producers who carried out this type of work in a "job cost" basis ( contract or sub-contracted ). Many of the smaller makers, stamp the cap after it was a finished product or sent it back to the main firm who contracted them and it was stamp by the firm holding the original contract.

With this being an un-known maker, they may in fact be a small operation who might have stamped the caps upon completion as a form of quality control,

Chris

[OSS]

You make a very good point.

If however, one over inks a stamp. Then if you do not press super hard, you can still achieve a clear stamp. This might be the case here. They did not press the stamp hard into the cloth.

Also, your point about the liner material being stamped before it was sewn into the cap. I believe that this is true of the larger "mass production", "assembly line" type manufacturers like Carl Halfar for example. I do not however believe that it is always the case for the smaller "cottage" type producers who carried out this type of work in a "job cost" basis ( contract or sub-contracted ). Many of the smaller makers, stamp the cap after it was a finished product or sent it back to the main firm who contracted them and it was stamp by the firm holding the original contract.

With this being an un-known maker, they may in fact be a small operation who might have stamped the caps upon completion as a form of quality control,

Chris

I don't mean to declare this hat an absolute fake, while I have probably looked at hundreds of Heer field caps over the years I'm sure there are makers that I have never seen. I don't recall ever seeing a white lining before but I suppose it is possible ( though contrary to specifications). I have never seen or heard of this maker. I believe most of these caps were stamped before assembly simply because it was more practical, this one seems not to be for the reason I stated. I t may possibly be real, but it would not be for me.

[90th Light]

I don't mean to declare this hat an absolute fake, while I have probably looked at hundreds of Heer field caps over the years I'm sure there are makers that I have never seen. I don't recall ever seeing a white lining before but I suppose it is possible ( though contrary to specifications). I have never seen or heard of this maker. I believe most of these caps were stamped before assembly simply because it was more practical, this one seems not to be for the reason I stated. I t may possibly be real, but it would not be for me.

Not a maker that I have ever heard of either so it does make comparison with a known original difficult and I can see where you are coming from.

For me it would come down to the price but if the price was right then I could be tempted if I could hold it in hand and make my final decision.

To hold this cap and study it would answer one nagging question that I have. Is that liner a white color, a cream color, off-white "goldie" or a light silver pearl grey ?
(I can not tell if the images are doing real justice to the color hue of the liner).

This said, it is my experience that one sees a wider variety of liner colors and may be materials used in the period 1934 to 1938. From 1939 and onwards into the war, things seem to become a bit more standardised when it comes to sidecaps. I have seen a 1944 dated sidecap but I have never seen a 1945 dated example so may be standardisation was the period 1940 to 1943.

The grommets look to the correct pre/ early war magnetic brass plated type ( they stopped using the brass plating during the war and just left them plain with the factory rolled finish or "blued" them ). This is very much a point in the cap's favour.

Good discussion,

Chris