2nd pattern tropenhelm in Afrika?

[Bond]

Hi,

This picture was posted on another site (he got it from the internet, source unknown) and it appears to show a 2nd pattern tropenhelm in the picture, which is why he posted it, but the one he suggested was a 2nd pattern is the wrong shape, IMO, but another helmet does look to be a 2nd pattern.

There is an interesting array of other piths/tropenhelms in this picture, so I have posted it twice.

Sorry, but the date and location is unknown, but it looks like Afrika and maybe 1941? I think it is Rommel getting the award?

Anyone else have an opinion?

Thanks,


Jerry

[Bond]

I found this picture in George Forty's, 'The road to Alexandria', p.89. (The original is from the Rommel museum in Herrlingen)

It's the same award ceremony from a different angle, and it was Rommel being presented with the Italian Medal for Bravery, by General Garibaldi, on the 22nd of April, 1941.

Jerry

[Hille76]

Yes,

award ceremony when Rommel became the Italian Military Order of Savoy, Grand Officer Grade from Italo Gariboldi. The photo must be from April 41 - July 41. Can´t believe that the pith helmets 2. model was used in this time.

KR

Timo

[Bond]

Yes,

award ceremony when Rommel became the Italian Military Order of Savoy, Grand Officer Grade from Italo Gariboldi. The photo must be from April 41 - July 41. Can´t believe that the pith helmets 2. model was used in this time.

KR

Timo

Thanks for the correction on the award being presented, but still 1941. Do you know the location of the ceremony?

You see a number of 2nd pattern tropenhelms dated 1941, and it does look like a 2nd pattern, IMO. Maybe rare in Afrika, but no reason why they were not there, even if only in small numbers. Without an iron clad history, like any tropical item, an example would not be accepted, so it's not an issue, just seems interesting to me.


Thanks,


Jerry

[Mark Gibson]

I've got the same picture from the same source as Jerry and looking at it there appears to be definite seams in the helmet. My call is 1st pattern but without much better quality photos it is just about impossible to say.
I know that alot of guys want the felt pith helmets to be DAK but the fact is unless examples of vet bringbacks or definite photographic evidence from Libya, not Tunisia, can be produced than they will always be considered the poor 2nd cousin of the 1st pattern.

Mark

[Bond]

Hi Mark,

Thanks for contributing your thoughts Are you sure you can see seams on the tropenhelm?
I tried to blow it up again, but maybe you have a better resolution screen than me.

I just find it odd that if they were making 2nd patterns in 1941, why none ended up in Afrika before 2nd/3rd Alamein.




Jerry

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Jerry

Rommel is wearin an olive first pattern, It can be seen in a couple photo scenes, situations during the early summer '41. Actually there are no 2nd patterns in this photo but a number of Italian, Allied and Dutch sun helmets.
For me the Pz Crew w/ Dutch (SA) helmets in the right foreground is the most interesting.

[Bond]

Hi Jerry

Rommel is wearin an olive first pattern, It can be seen in a couple photo scenes, situations during the early summer '41. Actually there are no 2nd patterns in this photo but a number of Italian, Allied and Dutch sun helmets.
For me the Pz Crew w/ Dutch (SA) helmets in the right foreground is the most interesting.

Hi Tim,

I posted that Rommel was in a 1st pattern, no doubt about that, it was the other Helmet I highlighted that looks as if it might have been a 2nd pattern.

I only posted the other picture of Rommel, just to show it was him getting the award in the first picture.

As I also posted, the range of helmets visible is interesting.


Here is Rommel with his 1st pattern tropenhelm and the Italian Military Order of Savoy.

Thanks,

Jerry