Tank Side Cap, Black

[OSS]

Hi Rove,
In my opinion, this is a wonderful example of an early issue panzer field cap. The insignia is original applied, but the original factory waffenfarbe looks to be removed and new waffenfarbe applied later. I cannot say if the waffenfarbe is wartime or not.
Thank you,
Curtiss

Agreed, original cap but replaced, non-typical soutache.

[John Huff]

The soutache is fake, the grommets are fake. IMO I would not buy it...

[RoyalDragon]

Hello
It s a Original Field cap with Original Insigns Reaplied after war , except the Piping . The rosa piping is a FAKE .
Regards
Mathieu

[billbert]

I right in there with Curtiss on this one... Billbert

[90th Light]

Thank for the additional images and I have to say that this is the highest number of addition photos that I have ever seen added. They are both clear and helpful.

My original assessment in post number 11 still stands except for one observation.

This is an original cap with original grey eagle and first model cockade, both of which have every chance of being period applied by hand to the cap.

I do not like that type of soutache and believe it to be more than likely postwar. Also hand applied soutache is rare and something I have mainly seen on the odd tropical cap brought back from Afrika.

The one point for me to review in my original assessment is the grommets, these are not the model of grommet which I first thought they were. Instead they look to be the type used in the production of WH tropical caps made from zinc. The baked enamel of the obverse looks olive- brown in color on my computer monitor. Such grommets are impossible to find today unless you take them out of an original tropical cap.

This is the first time that I have ever seen olive-brown grommets on a Panzer M40 black sidecap but I believe it to be quite viable for the time when this model of sidecap was being introduced which coincides with the production and issuing of the first tropical field caps.

I have a panzer M40 sidecap with apple green colored grommets on the obverse and have also seen a beyond doubt example in another collection with field grey colored grommets. Such grommets are original esp. for the 1940 period, appropriate for the type of cap and a slight variation from the norm which is nice,

Chris

[rove]

hello
thank you all for the replies

cause of the soutache...

for me two facts, which makes me confous

a) look (know, a bad pic, but...) at the perfect sewing of the soutache, made by a profi
b) why, if a fake or postwar, the guy which made this, didnt use a pink one...

[90th Light]

hello
thank you all for the replies

cause of the soutache...

for me two facts, which makes me confous

a) look (know, a bad pic, but...) at the perfect sewing of the soutache, made by a profi
b) why, if a fake or postwar, the guy which made this, didnt use a pink one...

Hello Rove,

I wonder if that was a white soutache but had assumed that it was a very light pink color. This may change things yet.

Can you please post a clear image of that soutache beside another soutache. Put the two soutaches side by side so I can compare the weave together of how they have been made.

A white soutache certainly explains why it has been changed over from what ever and applied by hand.

You may yet have a very interesting cap there,

Chris

[rove]

its a white soutache, i m sure now
but they used a pink thread...
comparing with a white parade tunic

[Richard P]

Very interesting, I have noticed on several white soutaches I have seen, that sometimes white uses a more silk like very fine thread in the making of the soutache material. It gives it a glossy or silk like look (fake look). Pink thread may have been used because that was all that was available when the application was made, a light pink barely shows up against white when tucked in a crevice.

I thought this soutache looked rather wide and thought maybe this was the first soutache put on this cap and the slits were made a little too far apart. Things to ponder.

Richard

[rove]

i dont want to let this interesting thread die

are there other ops?

greetings

[90th Light]

i dont want to let this interesting thread die

are there other ops?

greetings

rove,

you need to do some photos of this white soutache side by side with original soutache on a known orginal cap. Only this way will those who give their blessing here on WAF be able to see if it is original or not.

Hand applied soutache is always viewed with suspicion but as I have already said it did happen in rare cases such as tropical caps and funny enough when there was the need to put a white soutache on a black panzer cap such as for a member of the "Fuhrer-Begleit-Bataillon". A member of the FBB would do this when they could not get a factory produced cap with white soutache in their required size.

In some of your images, the soutache on your cap looks bad but in others it shows potential to be original. Richard.P. makes a very good point about white soutache in post number 39.

Good comparative shots with known originals is what is now needed,

Chris

[Richard P]

I wasn't going to mention the FBB like 90th Light did. I was still hoping you might sell it as a real cap with fake soutache. I suppose a member of the FBB should have taken his pink piped cap to a tailor and said machine sew my new white silky soutache on, so future collectors won't call it a fake. My hope for a fake sale dwindles...

Richard

[rove]

I wasn't going to mention the FBB like 90th Light did. I was still hoping you might sell it as a real cap with fake soutache. I suppose a member of the FBB should have taken his pink piped cap to a tailor and said machine sew my new white silky soutache on, so future collectors won't call it a fake. My hope for a fake sale dwindles...

Richard

i hope i understand you correct

ps. cape will not be for sale. sorry.

[Frozzer]

Can you measure the soutache width?. looks too thin.

IMO soutache is fake.

and one more questions - rivets schouldn't be black ?

[rove]

hello
pl read the complete thread

i will bring up the info in the evening