ID'd Police M-43 Cap

[Panzer Rob]

The Soldbuch is being discussed here where it has been exposed as having been tampered with. The "Nikolini" signature under the photo on the inside front cover has been forged, and I am still waiting to hear if a "Nikolini" signature has been added to page 02 as well.

I question the originality of the "Nikolini" tags as both the tags and the thread used to attach them to the cap and wrap look awfully new, not to mention the fact that the Soldbuch has changed hands a few times in the last year but was never sold/offered with or accompanied by a cap or wrap until just recently.

The wrap and cap look original from the photos, but I personally have serious doubts that these belonged to the "Nikolini" pictured in the photo in the Soldbuch.

It would be interesting to hear what others think.....

Rob

[Dennis S]

.....

[Eric JB]

Very well done........it burned me too, it looked fine to me as well.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[Richard P]

Rob,

Page 2 is exactly the same as it is now. The photo sent to me of the cover is exactly the same with his name written on it and the number. According to the photos taken when only the soldbuch was for sale, the only thing added afterward was the signature under the photo. The ink is completely different and the signature bears no resemblance to the signature written on the cover and page 1 and again on page 7. I am posting the photos taken when it did not have the signature under the photo.

I never give any credence to stories, but here are the events known to me. A picker that searches for panzer police items for me saw the soldbuch and knew the seller. He told the seller he was looking for police wraps. The seller said there had been more stuff where the soldbuch came from, and a number of months later had the wrap and cap. It took another month for them to work out a deal. In my estimation I paid nothing for the soldbuch and cap, and paid less for the wrap than a late war Heer panzer wrap in used condition, and that includes the pickers profit, so I'm sure he got it for much less.

I do not believe the cap, wrap, or name tags are newly made and added. I doubt a faker would get the abbreviations right for his school posting, as they differ from the abbreviations stamped in the book. If they found someone who could correctly tailor a police wrap in SS cut, as most Police wraps are Heer cut, and in period materials, had tags made, added a $650.00 Po M-43 cap, a ruined original SS Panzer Po soldbuch, and had the wrap made with original materials and insignia to match the photo, I would have charged a lot more money.

I am sorry if some moron signing it ruins the group for everyone but me. Please...go out and find another SS soldbuch to a panzer police soldier with a photo of him wearing a police stug wrap. Let me know when you get it and how much you paid. I am a uniform collector, my paper skills are nil...but even I know this is an original soldbuch in spite of the forged signature.

Richard

The sepia toned photo is mine and that is the true color of the soldbuch.

[Richard P]

2.

[Richard P]

3.

[Richard P]

4. Pages 10, 11, and 12 only have a few more handwritten entries. If this soldbuch was never issued why all the stamps throughout, and why the entries and signatures, initial, etc. on page 30? The soldier wrote his name 3 times in the book, is that not sufficient?

[Eric JB]

Richard,

First you only showed the now photo of the Soldbuch with the signature under the man's picture.

Now you show to us the "now and then" situation.

Did you have those "then" photos for a longer time, lets say before the one you showed us here with the signature under the picture ?

Did the soldier wrote his name three times in the booklet, when and where and on what page, are these three names done by his own hand or also by the faker, as that is not that clear now.

Is it possible to show those name entries.

As mentioned on the ID forum:

Richard,

Burned is a heavy weighted word.

When the problem is only the man's signature under the photo, that "burned" is something more like a storm in a tea cup.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[Panzer Rob]

Rob,

Page 2 is exactly the same as it is now. The photo sent to me of the cover is exactly the same with his name written on it and the number. According to the photos taken when only the soldbuch was for sale, the only thing added afterward was the signature under the photo. The ink is completely different and the signature bears no resemblance to the signature written on the cover and page 1 and again on page 7. I am posting the photos taken when it did not have the signature under the photo.

I never give any credence to stories, but here are the events known to me. A picker that searches for panzer police items for me saw the soldbuch and knew the seller. He told the seller he was looking for police wraps. The seller said there had been more stuff where the soldbuch came from, and a number of months later had the wrap and cap. It took another month for them to work out a deal. In my estimation I paid nothing for the soldbuch and cap, and paid less for the wrap than a late war Heer panzer wrap in used condition, and that includes the pickers profit, so I'm sure he got it for much less.

I do not believe the cap, wrap, or name tags are newly made and added. I doubt a faker would get the abbreviations right for his school posting, as they differ from the abbreviations stamped in the book. If they found someone who could correctly tailor a police wrap in SS cut, as most Police wraps are Heer cut, and in period materials, had tags made, added a $650.00 Po M-43 cap, a ruined original SS Panzer Po soldbuch, and had the wrap made with original materials and insignia to match the photo, I would have charged a lot more money.

I am sorry if some moron signing it ruins the group for everyone but me. Please...go out and find another SS soldbuch to a panzer police soldier with a photo of him wearing a police stug wrap. Let me know when you get it and how much you paid. I am a uniform collector, my paper skills are nil...but even I know this is an original soldbuch in spite of the forged signature.

Richard

The sepia toned photo is mine and that is the true color of the soldbuch.

Richard,

Like you, I never buy the story but the object itself. I saw the Soldbuch about a year ago and know it has changed hands at least three times since then, with the individual who offered it to me close to the original source from where it surfaced. From what I know I can tell you there was never any mention of it surfacing with a cap and/or wrap and this is how it was offered and sold - by itself - at least twice after I passed. If your picker friend did in fact contact one of the previous sellers who had the cap and wrap, it either had to have been the original source from whom the SB, wrap and cap surfaced and who split the group but never mentioned it, or a more recent seller who added the cap and wrap. Of course there is the definite possibility that the wrap and cap did in fact surface with the SB but it was just never mentioned, news which I would be very happy to hear.

I couldn't help but notice some of the earlier comments, and in this case I don't think anyone is looking to prove anyone right or wrong or discredit anything - IMHO it's not about that at all. This has become a very expensive hobby where every year the fakes are getting much better and more and more scamers are looking to rip people off, and we as fellow collectors need to work together and look out for one another. That the signature in the SB was forged tells me (and others I have been discussing this with) that there was an attempt to suggest the SB was issued, used and carried which would also help add validity to the tags in the cap and hat, seeing as how they are from the same unit the SB was issued through. This is I believe, where the cause for concern arose.

If you are happy with the wrap and cap and feel the tags are 100% original and period applied then that is all that matters. And it sounds like you got the lot for a very good price! Thanks also for posting the additional scans of the SB as it is now. Based on the scans I was sent from one of the previous owners, from what I can see nothing else has been added.

Rob

[Richard P]

Richard,

First you only showed the now photo of the Soldbuch with the signature under the man's picture.

Now you show to us the "now and then" situation.

Did you have those "then" photos for a longer time, lets say before the one you showed us here with the signature under the picture ?

Did the soldier wrote his name three times in the booklet, when and where and on what page, are these three names done by his own hand or also by the faker, as that is not that clear now.

Is it possible to show those name entries.

As mentioned on the ID forum:

Richard,

Burned is a heavy weighted word.

When the problem is only the man's signature under the photo, that "burned" is something more like a storm in a tea cup.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

Hello Eric-Jan,

The grayish tint photos are from forum member Dr. Strangelove, who I suppose took them when it was offered for sale by itself.

The sepia or brownish tone photos are mine.

My call is that the soldier himself wrote his name 3 times in the book. The outside cover is his last name only along with the stamped number found inside. I will post the photos I took after I received the group. Thanks for asking Eric-Jan.

Richard

Photo 1. Front cover with Nikolini handwritten with number #829, written by same hand as page 1.

Photo 2. Page 1. with name Gustav Nikolini handwritten by same person who wrote the rank above, stamped #829.

[Richard P]

2.

Photo 3. Gustav Nikolini signed on page 7, or handwritten by same hand as cover and page 1.

Photo 4. Forged signature by different hand, different ink, and did not even attempt to copy the other three times it is written.

[Richard P]

3.

Photo 5. For anyone interested page 2 and 3. Appears to be same handwriting as page 1 and cover.

Photo 6. Page 4.

[Richard P]

4. Last entry page 30, only the date may have been written in the same hand, but maybe not even that.

[Panzer Rob]

My call is that the soldier himself wrote his name 3 times in the book.

Richard,

The name "Nikolini" entered on the outside front cover, page 01 and 07 would most certainly have been done by the clerk filling out the Soldbuch. It would have then been signed by a officer of the unit issuing the book and then, finally, Nikolini - on page 02 and under his photograph (although, there are certain known exceptions to the latter). There is very little chance that the real Nikolini ever touched, never mind carried, this Soldbuch.

Rob

[Richard P]

Richard,

Like you, I never buy the story but the object itself. I saw the Soldbuch about a year ago and know it has changed hands at least three times since then, with the individual who offered it to me close to the original source from where it surfaced. From what I know I can tell you there was never any mention of it surfacing with a cap and/or wrap and this is how it was offered and sold - by itself - at least twice after I passed. If your picker friend did in fact contact one of the previous sellers who had the cap and wrap, it either had to have been the original source from whom the SB, wrap and cap surfaced and who split the group but never mentioned it, or a more recent seller who added the cap and wrap. Of course there is the definite possibility that the wrap and cap did in fact surface with the SB but it was just never mentioned, news which I would be very happy to hear.

I couldn't help but notice some of the earlier comments, and in this case I don't think anyone is looking to prove anyone right or wrong or discredit anything - IMHO it's not about that at all. This has become a very expensive hobby where every year the fakes are getting much better and more and more scamers are looking to rip people off, and we as fellow collectors need to work together and look out for one another. That the signature in the SB was forged tells me (and others I have been discussing this with) that there was an attempt to suggest the SB was issued, used and carried which would also help add validity to the tags in the cap and hat, seeing as how they are from the same unit the SB was issued through. This is I believe, where the cause for concern arose.

If you are happy with the wrap and cap and feel the tags are 100% original and period applied then that is all that matters. And it sounds like you got the lot for a very good price! Thanks also for posting the additional scans of the SB as it is now. Based on the scans I was sent from one of the previous owners, from what I can see nothing else has been added.

Rob

Hello Rob,

I drastically shortened the story. My picker was a German National and I don't pry much. He just said he had some leads he was following about a possible gray police wrap outside his normal sources. It was not in the persons possession that knew of it. I don't remember for sure, but I think it was over 4 months before it was mentioned again. Then he mentioned the guy said he had a photo of it in wear. I was thinking (hoping) studio portrait. The soldbuch and cap were never mentioned, nor were name tags, only a possible wrap and photo. I believe it took another month or more of haggling before he wound up with it.

He tried sending photos of the wrap and they didn't turn out well. He sent a photo of the soldbuch inside cover with photo. It was so small I could not really even tell it was a police wrap. He sent a photo of the name tag in the hat, but I didn't know there was one in the wrap until I opened it. He lives in the US so he just sent me the lot with no money from me. The soldbuch was just a curiosity for me, and of interest because of the photo.

I never say never, and try not to talk in absolutes when it comes to this stuff. If this wrap is fake, then they have located an Idiot-Savant who has the gift from God of sewing like a WWII period tailor of German uniforms. He can sew like he has made hundreds of wraps, and knows inside tips about wraps that are almost never talked about.

To me because of all the entries and stamps the soldbuch sure looks issued and used. I don't quite understand how it can even have the stuff it does without being issued, but that's why we have soldbuch experts. Longtime collector friends say they have seen filled out soldbuchs that did not have a signature under the photo. I have no idea as I usually only look for panzer photos in them and would not even notice a signature. I'll let you guys argue the finer points as I am clueless on them.

Thanks for all the info.

Richard