panzer overseas cap discusion

[Lenny W]

anyone see what i see sticks out like a sore thumb
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...wpost&t=406558

[B. N. Singer]

anyone see what i see...

Other than it’s not Original, no.
B. N. Singer

[Lenny W]

Other than it’s not Original, no.
B. N. Singer

thats what i thought as well Bryon at least i am not the only one who thinks its a bad cap

[Glenn McInnes]

i am not the only one who thinks its a bad cap

Well,I think that you already know that I do.






Glenn

[Chris_Werner]

Please enlighten us. I certainly do not want to sell a bad cap to anyone.

[Glenn McInnes]

Please enlighten us. I certainly do not want to sell a bad cap to anyone.

The interior/exterior grommets for starters and I see the exterior grommets have been subjected to some wear on this one (sometimes the interior grommets show similar wear). These hats are all over the place...Clever but not original.IMO




Glenn

[Lenny W]

here is another bad one with similar grommets

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=396480

[Chris_Werner]

I'm still a little dubious. The grommets look zinc to me, and not aluminum. Additionally, they are not worn but the paint seems to be chipped. I'll try to take some better pictures. Any other talking points besides the grommets? I don't want to sour the deal, but I sure don't want to sell a fake cap either. I have refunded the buyers money without his asking until I can get this resolved.

I still think it's a good cap or I would not have sold it as such.

Always learning!

[Kelly w]

No wonder the guys that bought before the Internet & Forums are fooled. Wonderful and original looking, except for the details as you experts [not me I know nothing] pointed out. Some of this stuff sitting in collections since 1960's. Popping out now for sale due to high values and estate auctions etc. And then the sad news

[hcliffe]

Kudos to you Chris for being proactive and making a refund while the cap is discussed. I also believe the cap is not original, and thought as much before this thread was started. Again, the grommets are the main sticking point for me. Fakes are very good nowadays, they frequently get everything right on them. So its not like there are a lot of red flags, but just one red flag can doom a cap, and appropriately so.

[90th Light]

The consistancy of these aluminium grommet caps always surprises me. They always have the same grommets, same cockades, same soutache material. Certainly appear to be mass produced via a factory type operation. The thousand dollar question is when did that factory make them ??????

Those aluminium grommets just do not seem to be accepted at all and I have to be honest and say that I have never seen a veteran brought back example with a grommet like that (accepted original aluminum grommets are rare and some what different). The first examples of this maker that I ever saw was in the 1990's not long after the Berlin wall had come down and a hoard of tropical M40/ 41 caps with those grommets, cockades, soutache was found in Poland and made their way to the USA. In fact I have some memory of a hardware store giving them away as part of an in-store promotion.

No body has ever worked out who the maker is because they seem to always only have a size marking only in them. The tropical M40/ 41's are quite convincing in many ways except for the fact that no one has ever seen a confirmed veteran brought back example and had not seen one of these at all until the 1990's.

As I have said they are well made from original material and very consistant in production but the question has always hung over them of the never seen before aluminium grommets and when were they made.

Some feel that they are period and were made in the east of the Reich for the Eastern Front they have however never been widely accepted and in their own way are a "pink smock" of Third Reich caps,

Chris

[Kelly w]

You have done your homework. I too go to great lengths to investigate items. Especially before joining this forum. The experts don't have all the anwsers. But enough that I will go along with their opinions mostly.

I have a good example: A year ago I was buying on eBay a k98 rifle sling to go with my WW2 piece. 90% of experts swear that all k98 slings were oiled. I came across unoiled slings, perfect in every other way to match a WW2 sling. Also A expert that has seen hundreds of examples has personaly seen vet bring backs with unoiled slings. Confirmed doubts against the long standing opinions.

Problem is that the majority of expert collector's will pass on the unoiled and you will have a hard time getting top dollar. Or in this case $50.00 instead of what $900 for this cap.