Officers peak cap maker label. Any red flags ??

[Mike39]

On FIRST look, we have all the traits of Janke. We also have the piping cross over at the back.

One further looks, we have traits not really associated with Janke. The maker mark is interesting, not the sort of Janke thing.

Now, one test I would do is to check the feel of the trikot wool.

Janke used a polyester based Trikot. As we know they were repro's not originally made to deceive.

Run the back of your hand across the trikot material on the top of the cap. I would be looking for a very dry trikot material that feels quite rough on the back of your hand. This would be a period material and would give a good account for the cap. (The cap seems well made too).

If the material is slippery and smooth to feel on the back of your hand, you have a polyester fibre trikot which I would avoid.

Try those tests and report back.

J T

Hi J T & thanks for your imput.
I've just tried your test & the fabric or trikot feels quite rough across the back of my hand. there's several moth nip's in a few places as well.

Cheers
Mike

[enorepap]

Hallo Mike39

I agree with the others that this visor shows surely a lot of red flags, but, on the other hand, I'm sure that this company was built in 1883 in Bielitz (now Bielsko-Bialo in southern Poland) and was led, before WW2, by Walter Brull. Its full name, during the war period, was PLUTZAR & BRULL KG Tuch und flaggenfabrik, lohnappretur, lohnfarberei, and it was located in Nickelsdorf,(now Mikuszowice Śląskie) near Bielitz. After the war it was probably absorbed by the Polish government. There is a sad story related to its history: Ernst Brull, co-proprietor of this textile manufacturing company, was taken into custody on July 22, 1943, by the Gestapo Field Service Headquarters in Bielitz and sent to the concentration camp at Auschwitz. On January 3, 1944, he was transferred to the concentration camp of Buchenwald-Thuringen (source: Displacements, by Angelika Bammer, 1994, the Regents of the University of Wisconsin System). I ignore his final fate.

best regards

[Mike39]

Hallo Mike39

I agree with the others that this visor shows surely a lot of red flags, but, on the other hand, I'm sure that this company was built in 1883 in Bielitz (now Bielsko-Bialo in southern Poland) and was led, before WW2, by Walter Brull. Its full name, during the war period, was PLUTZAR & BRULL KG Tuch und flaggenfabrik, lohnappretur, lohnfarberei, and it was located in Nickelsdorf, near Bielitz. After the war it was probably absorbed by the Polish government. There is a sad story related to its history: Ernst Brull, co-proprietor of this textile manufacturing company, was taken into custody on July 22, 1943, by the Gestapo Field Service Headquarters in Bielitz and sent to the concentration camp at Auschwitz. On January 3, 1944, he was transferred to the concentration camp of Buchenwald-Thuringen (source: Displacements, by Angelika Bammer, 1994, the Regents of the University of Wisconsin System). I ignore his final fate.

best regards

Thanks for the fascinating information. At least this confirms the maker exsisted but I guess the cap still isn't getting a green light. Can anyone specifically point out what isn't right with the cap ? It's been pointed out that it shows similarities to a Janke but it also appears to have the correct trikot & the construction is of a good standard. So what are the red flags ?
Nobody recognised the maker therefore an assumption has been made that the label isn't right. But now that we know the maker did exsist, could it be that this is the style of label they used. Was it typical to use an ink stamp inside the liner band & is this the correct style of stamp? Are all of the construction methods used correct or not. We've had a comment that the waffenfarbe is to "girly" pink, well sorry if my photo's arn't depicting the colour correctly but I was under the impression that pink or rosa was the correct colour for Panzer units.
If I'm going to take the cap back I need to present a good reason for doing so, not just "the guy's on WA didn't like the look of it".

Cheers
Mike

[enorepap]

Hallo Mike39

In my personal opinion the fabric is correct.

I don't know what was the shape of their label, because I've seen till now only the ink stamps they used on flags. Obviously, these stamps are very different from the stamp inside the sb of your visor, but I think it looks good.

From my point of view, the main concern is about the odd piping's overlap.

[Mike39]

Thanks Enorepap.
These are the kind of details I need to know, but is this enough to condem the cap? This is one of my dilemmas in that I just haven't handled enough cap's to know the finer details of what to look for.

Mike

[90th Light]

I have seen a battle flag by this maker with that 1943 stamp but I have never seen a cap by them,

Chris

[stonemint]

I'm not ready to rule it out, but I am also not ready to rule it in, either. We have seen the overlapped piping with bullion and rayon, but (if I recall right), this would be a first for wool on a WH visor. I agree with Kreager---that sweatdiamond looks plastic, not celluloid. I am also surprised that a flag-maker made visors ( first for me). It isn't a Franky--its either a ground-up repro, or its all original. I would suggest the old standby tests--the burn test and the blacklight test.

[DonC]

On this one, I would have to go with my gut and say I am not comfortable with it. The piping color and the overlap kill it for me.

Don

[Mike39]

Thanks for your replies guy's, very much appreciated. I've contacted a couple of dealers in the US & they've come back with the same concerns so I think the best thing I can do is take it back. As long as there are question marks over it, regardless of whether it's a copy or not, it'll never sit well in any collection.

Thanks again
Mike

[crooney2002c]

Hi Guy's
I recently picked an officers cap out of the wood work & just wanted to make sure there was no red flags with the maker label. Cap's are not usually what I collect so my knowledge is limited when knowing good from bad. My gut feeling was good with this one when I first saw it so hopefully it is good.
All comments welcome.

Thanks
Mike

Hi Mike39...

My great grandfather, Ernest Bruell ran the factory Plutzar i Brüll with his father, Walter Brüll. It was founded by Ernst Brull (Walters father) and a Mr.Plutzar. Ernst had the textile knowledge, and Plutzar had the money. The factory was doing well, and at their peak they had 500 employees. But, in 1939, when the Nazis came to Bielsko (Bieltiz), they took over the factory. Walter was Jewish and Ernest was a half Jew. The Nazis allowed Walter to stay in Bielsko, while all other Jews were deported to Auschwitz. But, in 1943, Ernest, his two brothers and Walter were deported to Auschwitz. They survived the camps and lived to tell the story.

Is there a chance that you still have this hat today? Even though many years have passed!

[crooney2002c]

Hallo Mike39

I agree with the others that this visor shows surely a lot of red flags, but, on the other hand, I'm sure that this company was built in 1883 in Bielitz (now Bielsko-Bialo in southern Poland) and was led, before WW2, by Walter Brull. Its full name, during the war period, was PLUTZAR & BRULL KG Tuch und flaggenfabrik, lohnappretur, lohnfarberei, and it was located in Nickelsdorf,(now Mikuszowice Śląskie) near Bielitz. After the war it was probably absorbed by the Polish government. There is a sad story related to its history: Ernst Brull, co-proprietor of this textile manufacturing company, was taken into custody on July 22, 1943, by the Gestapo Field Service Headquarters in Bielitz and sent to the concentration camp at Auschwitz. On January 3, 1944, he was transferred to the concentration camp of Buchenwald-Thuringen (source: Displacements, by Angelika Bammer, 1994, the Regents of the University of Wisconsin System). I ignore his final fate.

best regards

Hi
My great grandfather, Ernest Bruell ran the factory Plutzar i Brüll with his father, Walter Brüll. It was founded by Ernst Brull (Walters father) and a Mr.Plutzar. Ernst had the textile knowledge, and Plutzar had the money. The factory was doing well, and at their peak they had 500 employees. But, in 1939, when the Nazis came to Bielsko (Bieltiz), they took over the factory. Walter was Jewish and Ernest was a half Jew. The Nazis allowed Walter to stay in Bielsko, while all other Jews were deported to Auschwitz. But, in 1943, Ernest, his two brothers and Walter were deported to Auschwitz. They survived the camps and lived to tell the story.

[enorepap]

Hi
My great grandfather, Ernest Bruell ran the factory Plutzar i Brüll with his father, Walter Brüll. It was founded by Ernst Brull (Walters father) and a Mr.Plutzar. Ernst had the textile knowledge, and Plutzar had the money. The factory was doing well, and at their peak they had 500 employees. But, in 1939, when the Nazis came to Bielsko (Bieltiz), they took over the factory. Walter was Jewish and Ernest was a half Jew. The Nazis allowed Walter to stay in Bielsko, while all other Jews were deported to Auschwitz. But, in 1943, Ernest, his two brothers and Walter were deported to Auschwitz. They survived the camps and lived to tell the story.

Hallo Crooney

I'm glad you discovered this forum and that the information I wrote many years ago were well founded. I am also glad to know that your ancestors survived the concentration camp system and had the possibility of a second life. What happened to the company after the war and with the advent of the communist regime?

Happy New Year

[crooney2002c]

Hi,

And I’m glad that my message got to you! After the war, the factory became nationalized, and the communists took the factory away for a second time from the brothers. The first was from the Nazis. Ernest worked in the factory for some time, overseeing the finishing department. But the factory got new communist directors, etc.. The communists took there villa away from them as well. They were only allowed to stay on the second floor, while the first and third floor were used for offfices. When my family came to the USA in 1961, they no longer had any control over the factory, and later it was torn down since most things became made in China.

[crooney2002c]

[QUOTE=enorepap;8033483]Hallo Crooney

file:///Users/christianrooney/Documents/pics%20to%20add%20to%20FAMILY%20PROJECT/factor2.bmp

Above is a link to an image of the factory